[Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes

Robert robert at yinnar.com
Wed Jun 5 16:07:07 EST 2013


:-)  Great! What a difference that would make to her life and probably the lives of any children she might have.

Robert Hind
Retired
ex Traralgon and Ashwood
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Roland Gesthuizen 
  To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes


  True, one of my students remarked at the school formal that nobody in her entire extended family, nobody .. had ever finished school beyond year 10 or completed any formal post-secondary education. She was the first to complete VCE then go onto tertiary studies. What a champion.


  Regards Roland

  Roland Gesthuizen | eLearning Leader 
  Keysborough College DEECD
  http://about.me/rgesthuizen

  "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead


  On 05/06/2013, at 1:31 PM, "Savage, John L" <savage.john.l at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:


    In a school where many parents may only have a primary school education, the achievement of a "High School Diploma" is an end in itself and is not to be sneezed at and will often represent sheer persistence. Not all year 12 students are aiming for tertiary entrance although 60% of ours get there and almost none are unemployed after year 12.

    Laurie Savage
    Pascoe Vale Girls College

    -----Original Message-----
    From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Matheson, Geoff J
    Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 8:02 AM
    To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
    Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes

    I'm not so sure you can say that the "S" is meaningless in the real world.
    For many of my students, completing the VCE is an achievement in and of itself, and the "S" is the ultimate determinant on whether or not that happens. "Completing the VCE" still has meaning for employers, and I find that if students are struggling to meet the "S" requirements of IT Apps or Software Development, they are likely struggling to complete the VCE more broadly. 


    Geoff Matheson
    Senior Campus Reports Co-ordinator





    On 5/06/13 4:42 AM, "Mark Scott" <msc at luther.vic.edu.au> wrote:


      Steph

      Just keep in mind that future employees or tertiary institutions won't 
      hold an S in a subject in any high regard if their marks are so low 
      that they do not achieve a reportable ATAR.
      As Robert has said the consequences for the student is the UG grade. 
      The S is meaningless in the real world.

      Mark Scott
      Luther College



      Mark Scott
      Daily Administrator

      Plymouth Road
      Croydon Hills Victoria 3136


      Telephone (03) 9724 2000
      Direct Line (03) 9724 2023
      www.luther.vic.edu.au

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      From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] 
      On Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends [timmer at westnet.com.au]
      Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:58 PM
      To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
      Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes

      Hello Stephanie

      just to add to Robert's statement, the study design also says (p31) 'to 
      achieve this outcome the student will draw on key knowledge and key 
      skills outlined in Area of Study 2' and then goes on to list 15 KK 
      points and 6 KS points. From what you have said, the student has 
      demonstrated a minimum knowledge of the use of the chosen software 
      (covered by dot point 4 of KS) and nothing else. For example, did 
      he/she design a solution? did he/she select and apply testing 
      methods...? has he/she demonstrated knowledge of design tools for 
      describing data type? and so on. VCAA says the dot points should not be 
      a checklist, but at the same time this does not mean a student should 
      be given the nod for just demonstrating achievement of one of them.

      Also, don't forget that while the student may eventually be awarded an 'S'
      for the outcome (as others have pointed out), the grade you award for 
      the SAC (which is 'stand-alone') will stand no matter what the student 
      demonstrated beforehand or demonstrates afterward - and it sounds like 
      a UG is in the offing.

      Regards
      Robert T-A




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <geoffmoss37 at bigpond.com>
      To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
      <itapps at edulists.com.au>
      Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 5:38 PM
      Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes



        Hi Stephanie

        I agree with Robert.  Keep in mind that the granting of the 'S' does 
        not  need to occur in the production of the SAC.  The student should 
        be/is able  to demonstrate these skills during the time of the 
        outcome, including the  practice SAC and any other preparatory 
        classes, as well as during the SAC.

        This enables a student who was unable to attend or complete a SAC due 
        to illness or any other excuse that does not allow an extension to 
        gain an 'S' for the outcome.

        Geoff Moss
        RMIT

        ---- Robert <robert at yinnar.com> wrote:

          Hi Stephanie,

          Neither Wonderful nor Wise, but certainly older than Mark :-)

          To add to Mark Scott's response to your question. I do not agree 
          with Mark.

          The study design clearly states that

          "The award of satisfactory completion for a unit is based on a 
          decision that the student has demonstrated achievement of the set of 
          outcomes specified for the unit. This decision will be based on the 
          teacher's assessment of the student's performance on assessment 
          tasks designated for the unit."

          So in terms of Unit 3 Outcome 2, Task 1, the student would have to

          "Design, and develop using a relational database management system, 
          a solution to an information problem"

          This does require the student to, amongst other things: ( See 
          Assessment  Handbook )
           a.. select and use appropriate software functions of relational  
          database management software, as published annually in the VCAA 
          Bulletin  VCE, VCAL and VET, to create database tables, relationships 
          among them  and to construct queries to retrieve required information 
          (underlining
          mine)
          If your student did not do this then he should not get an S. By your  
          description he did not did not do all this.

          By all means give him a chance to redeem himself, in fact you should 
          do this.

          Robert Hind
          Retired
          Ex Traralgon and Ashwood


           ----- Original Message -----
           From: Mark Scott
           To: 'Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List'
           Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:42 PM
           Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes


           Hi Steph



           Not sure if I qualify as Wonderful or Wise but.



           Yes this is an S.



           We did away with the concept of "fail" years ago so we could brag 
          about  the "pass" rate at VCE.



           Mark

           Luther College





                 Mark Scott
                 Daily Administrator
                 Luther

                 Plymouth Road
                 Croydon Hills Victoria 3136


                 Luther

                 Telephone (03) 9724 2000
                 Direct Line (03) 9724 2023
                 www.luther.vic.edu.au



           Please consider the environment before printing this email.

           This email and any attachments may contain privileged and 
          confidential  information.
           If you are not the intended recipient you may not distribute or  
          reproduce this email
           or attachments. If you have received this message in error please  
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           From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au 
          [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Stephanie POLAN
           Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 3:21 PM
           To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
           Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes



           Good Afternoon Wonderfully Wise People,



           I'm looking for your professional opinion on the topic of how much 
          work  a student must produce in order to gain an S on outcome 2 unit 
          3.



           I have a student that opened Access, created a table, created a 
          query that didn't do anything 'query-like' he did all the sorting 
          and calculating outside of Access.



           Apparently this is enough to get an S.

           This is my first year teaching year 12 and find this concept 
          unbelievable, I can not comprehend this.




           Your professional opinion/coping strategies would be  much 
          appreciated.



           Steph Polan

           --

           Miss Polan

           McKinnon SC




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