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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>:-) Great! What a difference that would make
to her life and probably the lives of any children she might have.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Robert Hind</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Retired</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>ex Traralgon and Ashwood</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rgesthuizen@gmail.com href="mailto:rgesthuizen@gmail.com">Roland
Gesthuizen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 05, 2013 3:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students
meeting outcomes</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>True, one of my students remarked at the school formal that
nobody in her entire extended family, nobody .. had ever finished school
beyond year 10 or completed any formal post-secondary education. She was the
first to complete VCE then go onto tertiary studies. What a champion.<BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true">
<DIV
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT: medium Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT: medium Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: medium; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><BR>Regards
Roland<BR><BR><B>Roland Gesthuizen</B> | eLearning
Leader <BR>Keysborough College DEECD<BR><A
href="http://about.me/rgesthuizen">http://about.me/rgesthuizen</A></DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: medium; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><BR>"Never
doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens
can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has."
--Margaret Mead</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 05/06/2013, at 1:31 PM, "Savage, John L" <<A
href="mailto:savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au">savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">In a school where many parents may only have a
primary school education, the achievement of a "High School Diploma" is an
end in itself and is not to be sneezed at and will often represent sheer
persistence. Not all year 12 students are aiming for tertiary entrance
although 60% of ours get there and almost none are unemployed after year
12.<BR><BR>Laurie Savage<BR>Pascoe Vale Girls College<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>
[mailto:itapps-<A
href="mailto:bounces@edulists.com.au">bounces@edulists.com.au</A>] On Behalf
Of Matheson, Geoff J<BR>Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 8:02 AM<BR>To: Year 12
IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<BR>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps]
Students meeting outcomes<BR><BR>I'm not so sure you can say that the "S" is
meaningless in the real world.<BR>For many of my students, completing the
VCE is an achievement in and of itself, and the "S" is the ultimate
determinant on whether or not that happens. "Completing the VCE" still has
meaning for employers, and I find that if students are struggling to meet
the "S" requirements of IT Apps or Software Development, they are likely
struggling to complete the VCE more broadly. <BR><BR><BR>Geoff
Matheson<BR>Senior Campus Reports Co-ordinator<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On
5/06/13 4:42 AM, "Mark Scott" <<A
href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Steph<BR><BR>Just keep in mind that future
employees or tertiary institutions won't <BR>hold an S in a subject in any
high regard if their marks are so low <BR>that they do not achieve a
reportable ATAR.<BR>As Robert has said the consequences for the student is
the UG grade. <BR>The S is meaningless in the real world.<BR><BR>Mark
Scott<BR>Luther College<BR><BR><BR><BR>Mark Scott<BR>Daily
Administrator<BR><BR>Plymouth Road<BR>Croydon Hills Victoria
3136<BR><BR><BR>Telephone (03) 9724 2000<BR>Direct Line (03) 9724
2023<BR><A
href="http://www.luther.vic.edu.au">www.luther.vic.edu.au</A><BR><BR>Please
consider the environment before printing this email.<BR><BR>This email and
any attachments may contain privileged and confidential
<BR>information.<BR>If you are not the intended recipient you may not
distribute or <BR>reproduce this email or attachments. If you have
received this message <BR>in error please notify us by return
mail.<BR>________________________________________<BR>From:
itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <BR>On
Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends [timmer@westnet.com.au]<BR>Sent: Tuesday,
June 04, 2013 6:58 PM<BR>To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List<BR>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting
outcomes<BR><BR>Hello Stephanie<BR><BR>just to add to Robert's statement,
the study design also says (p31) 'to <BR>achieve this outcome the student
will draw on key knowledge and key <BR>skills outlined in Area of Study 2'
and then goes on to list 15 KK <BR>points and 6 KS points. From what you
have said, the student has <BR>demonstrated a minimum knowledge of the use
of the chosen software <BR>(covered by dot point 4 of KS) and nothing
else. For example, did <BR>he/she design a solution? did he/she select and
apply testing <BR>methods...? has he/she demonstrated knowledge of design
tools for <BR>describing data type? and so on. VCAA says the dot points
should not be <BR>a checklist, but at the same time this does not mean a
student should <BR>be given the nod for just demonstrating achievement of
one of them.<BR><BR>Also, don't forget that while the student may
eventually be awarded an 'S'<BR>for the outcome (as others have pointed
out), the grade you award for <BR>the SAC (which is 'stand-alone') will
stand no matter what the student <BR>demonstrated beforehand or
demonstrates afterward - and it sounds like <BR>a UG is in the
offing.<BR><BR>Regards<BR>Robert T-A<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original
Message -----<BR>From: <geoffmoss37@bigpond.com><BR>To: "Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing
List"<BR><itapps@edulists.com.au><BR>Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013
5:38 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting
outcomes<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Stephanie<BR><BR>I agree with Robert.
Keep in mind that the granting of the 'S' does <BR>not need
to occur in the production of the SAC. The student should
<BR>be/is able to demonstrate these skills during the time of the
<BR>outcome, including the practice SAC and any other preparatory
<BR>classes, as well as during the SAC.<BR><BR>This enables a student
who was unable to attend or complete a SAC due <BR>to illness or any
other excuse that does not allow an extension to <BR>gain an 'S' for the
outcome.<BR><BR>Geoff Moss<BR>RMIT<BR><BR>---- Robert
<robert@yinnar.com> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Stephanie,<BR><BR>Neither Wonderful nor
Wise, but certainly older than Mark :-)<BR><BR>To add to Mark Scott's
response to your question. I do not agree <BR>with Mark.<BR><BR>The
study design clearly states that<BR><BR>"The award of satisfactory
completion for a unit is based on a <BR>decision that the student has
demonstrated achievement of the set of <BR>outcomes specified for the
unit. This decision will be based on the <BR>teacher's assessment of
the student's performance on assessment <BR>tasks designated for the
unit."<BR><BR>So in terms of Unit 3 Outcome 2, Task 1, the student
would have to<BR><BR>"Design, and develop using a relational database
management system, <BR>a solution to an information
problem"<BR><BR>This does require the student to, amongst other
things: ( See <BR>Assessment Handbook )<BR> a.. select and
use appropriate software functions of relational <BR>database
management software, as published annually in the VCAA <BR>Bulletin
VCE, VCAL and VET, to create database tables, relationships
<BR>among them and to construct queries to retrieve required
information <BR>(underlining<BR>mine)<BR>If your student did not do
this then he should not get an S. By your <BR>description he did
not did not do all this.<BR><BR>By all means give him a chance to
redeem himself, in fact you should <BR>do this.<BR><BR>Robert
Hind<BR>Retired<BR>Ex Traralgon and Ashwood<BR><BR><BR> -----
Original Message -----<BR> From: Mark Scott<BR> To: 'Year 12
IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List'<BR> Sent: Tuesday, June
04, 2013 3:42 PM<BR> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students
meeting outcomes<BR><BR><BR> Hi Steph<BR><BR><BR><BR> Not
sure if I qualify as Wonderful or Wise but.<BR><BR><BR><BR> Yes
this is an S.<BR><BR><BR><BR> We did away with the concept of
"fail" years ago so we could brag <BR>about the "pass" rate at
VCE.<BR><BR><BR><BR> Mark<BR><BR> Luther
College<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> Mark
Scott<BR> Daily
Administrator<BR> Luther<BR><BR> Plymouth
Road<BR> Croydon Hills
Victoria
3136<BR><BR><BR> Luther<BR><BR> Telephone
(03) 9724 2000<BR> Direct
Line (03) 9724
2023<BR> www.luther.vic.edu.au<BR><BR><BR><BR> Please
consider the environment before printing this email.<BR><BR> This
email and any attachments may contain privileged and <BR>confidential
information.<BR> If you are not the intended recipient you
may not distribute or <BR>reproduce this email<BR> or
attachments. If you have received this message in error please
<BR>notify us by return mail.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> From:
itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au
<BR>[mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Stephanie
POLAN<BR> Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 3:21 PM<BR> To: Year 12
IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<BR> Subject: [Year 12 IT
Apps] Students meeting outcomes<BR><BR><BR><BR> Good Afternoon
Wonderfully Wise People,<BR><BR><BR><BR> I'm looking for your
professional opinion on the topic of how much <BR>work a student
must produce in order to gain an S on outcome 2 unit
<BR>3.<BR><BR><BR><BR> I have a student that opened Access,
created a table, created a <BR>query that didn't do anything
'query-like' he did all the sorting <BR>and calculating outside of
Access.<BR><BR><BR><BR> Apparently this is enough to get an
S.<BR><BR> This is my first year teaching year 12 and find this
concept <BR>unbelievable, I can not comprehend
this.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> Your professional opinion/coping
strategies would be much
<BR>appreciated.<BR><BR><BR><BR> Steph
Polan<BR><BR> --<BR><BR> Miss Polan<BR><BR> McKinnon
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