[Year 12 SofDev] RE: Why aren't teachers able to write their own
material ?
Russell Quinn
QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
Fri Mar 7 11:21:57 EST 2008
That all very well to specify an open course to allow for
flexibility and proclivities, but may I remind you that we have a
closed exam. I have great trouble reconciling an open course with
a closed exam.
I might note that many of my colleagues teaching units 3/4 esp. physics,
and including art and language are similarly unhappy and in some cases angry
(on behalf of the students) with the open course and closed exam concept.
Russell Quinn
Mailto: qn at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
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Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 33
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Why aren't teachers able to write theirownmaterial ?
(Adrian Janson)
2. RE: Why aren't teachers able to writetheirownmaterial ?
(Christophersen, Paula P)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:40:19 +1100
From: "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write
theirownmaterial ?
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<006101c87fdb$0ea50400$2bef0c00$@adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Maggie and all,
Can I say - in regards to the 'Essential Software Development' book that
David and I wrote - we decided from the outset that we didn't want to write
a text book based solely on the study design. Many texts follow the study
design in a slave like manner - in that they have chapters titled 'Area of
study 1', etc. and they have actual SACs and the assessment criteria.
Our goal was to write a Software Development text book. So there is content
in the text that is not in the course. If that makes the book less
appealing to some - then that was a risk that we took and we will live with
- but ultimately, I would rather write a 'text book' that will have some
longevity and can be useful outside of the bounds of the course (and the
state), than one which will be rendered useless as soon as the accreditation
period ends.
David and I do not intend to imply that all the material in our text will be
on the exam. You have the study design to guide you in this respect.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au
Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Maggie Iaquinto
Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 9:02 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write
theirownmaterial ?
How prescriptive are the study designs of, say, Media Studies or History
or Specialist Maths? Are we the only ones without such detail?
The textbooks have (minor) errors. In ITA, eg, the use of hubs instead
of switches is an embarassment. The other parts of the textbook(s) I am
grateful for. The Dawson and Janson book for SD handles many difficult
topics to an incredible depth. Will these items be on the final exam?
Another example: how many topics within Project Management should be
taught and how deeply?
I have never in my life put together a bus network and some techs in the
schools where I have worked have no idea either. Token ring?
Do other study designs have Outcomes and Solutions provided for them -
which are VCAA approved?
Maggie
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Stephen Digby
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 6:10 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write
theirownmaterial ?
Hate to return to a hoary old chestnut, but what we need is a real
curriculum.
VCE studies (and VELs for that matter) are merely specifications
prepared at
the end of the analysis and design phases with a few suggestions re. the
development stage.
The development stage should have been contracted out among the huge
range
of talent that we see glimpses of on this list.
The product should have been bench tested during development either with
teacher feedback or classroom trials.
The product would consist of not only docuementation about content
delivery,
sequence, supporting activities etc
- but also software versions of sacs and sample excellent responses that
are
acheivable within the docuemnted timelines.
i.e.
We should be supported with a full recipe for excellent implementation
of
the course.
Some of the published commercial course support materials (usually
called
"texts" althouth they are and should be much more than this) come some
way
towards this e.g. ITA Potts with question answers, sac samples (only
single
version and limited solutions).
Teachers should NOT be spending time on course writing. It is a job for
the
gifted and the specialised.
Teachers should be spending time outside class on on planning,
preparation,
correction, and communication (students and parents).
One of the key reasons why the phrase 're-inventing the wheel" has such
resonance with teachers is that we are continually creating our tools of
trade, rather than using them.
Teachers have a deep suspicion of sharing - this list is one of the
eceptions that prove the rule.
We hide behind some legalisms and ignore others. E.g. ALL work we
created
while working full time is automatically owned by our empoloyer
regardless
of when we create it.
Our VCE regulator body (e.g. VCAA) forces us to adopt a mind set that
all
trainee teachers are warned against - guess what is in the teachers mind
-
"You make up a SAC - and I'll tell you if it meets all my criteria. No
-
I'm not going to show you an example or 3 of an excellent SAC and an
excellent response."
Imagine a world where there was a digital commons that individuals
contributed to and into which governments donated selected commercially
developed resourecs that they believed would improve the educational
outcomes for the children of their citzens and perhjaps the citizens of
countries unable to develop material sof such quality.
Imagine that this commons encouraged development of resources and
recontribution of altered resources (changes for cultural flavour,
difficulty, content emphsis etc.).......
====================================================
Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
====================================================
Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical. Yogi Berra
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Kevork Krozian
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:32 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write theirown
material ?
Hi Adrian and Mark,
Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
keep
avoiding.
If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
about
teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
be
fair to the students and ourselves.
In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
instructor,
you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not know a bus
network
even if you were run over by one.
I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
active
and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers unable
to
write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with solutions
they
can show others ?
I would say because the training and the need for new and current
training
has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do we do about
this
?
I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and need
to
go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever else we
need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver updated
courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
they
can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
Just my thoughts
Kevork
>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
more complex.
In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
Adrian Janson wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
SAC
> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
of
> a concern.
>
>
>
> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
spirit
> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
not
> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
this
> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
to
> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
> another teachers name on it.
>
>
>
> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
the
> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
the
> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
it
> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
this?
>
>
>
> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
deal.
>
>
>
> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
SACs
> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
number
> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
SACs
> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
provide
> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
seems
> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
> materials and/or solutions.
>
>
>
> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
use. I
> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
the
> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
familiar
> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
students a
> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
of
> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
I
> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
> picture.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adrian Janson
>
> VITTA President
>
> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
Gordon A
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
>
>
> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
> Stephenson...
>
> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
name
> on it if you change it.
>
>
>
> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
> scheme looks good.
>
>
>
> gordon
>
>
>
> ----------------
>
> Gordon Poultney
>
> Horsham College
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
> What about a simpler attribution such as
>
> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
by
> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>
> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
attribution
> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
info
> re. source).
>
> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
sharing.
>
> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
because of
> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>
> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
> possible....
>
> ====================================================
> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> ====================================================
>
> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
> Churchill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
> Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>
> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>
> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
the
> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
modifiers
> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>
> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
by some
> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
if I
> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>
> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>
> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
version
> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
for their
> labours!
>
> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>
> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
the
> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
purposes by
> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
as it
> morphs through the ether.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mark
>
> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
morphed
> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
- for
> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
diagram
> for the teacher too.
>> cheers Gordon
>>
>> ----------------
>> Gordon Poultney
>> Horsham College
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>>
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>> design
>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
You
>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
discretely.
>>
>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>> Outcome.
>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
the
>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
just
>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
40/10.
>>
>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
this
>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>
>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
report.
>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
of
>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>
>> Just an opinion.
>>
>> Maggie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
part
>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>
>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>> > Hi Ross,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
would
>> do,
>> > for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
students
>> > have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
a
>> > study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>> > conditions)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
to
>> the
>> > holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
do
>> just
>> > for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
I
>> don't
>> > even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Claudia Graham
>> >
>> > Overnewton College
>> >
>> > Keilor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> > *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
Ross
>> > A
>> > *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>> > *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>> > *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>> > Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
this).
>> > My
>>
>> > question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
am
>> on
>> > the right track.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > i. Can/should they access the internet.
>> >
>> > ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
through
>> the
>> > Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kindest Regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > **Ross Ogilvie **
>> >
>> > **LSF ICT Leader **
>> >
>> > **Sunbury**** College**
>> >
>> > **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>> >
>> > **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>> >
>> > ** (H) 54272843**
>> >
>> > **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>> >
>> > **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>> > --
>> > Mark Kelly
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail:
8520
9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
all
the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
buy a new bomber.
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
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Authority
and http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
-
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority
and http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
-
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:15:55 +1100
From: "Christophersen, Paula P"
<christophersen.paula.p at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to
writetheirownmaterial ?
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<262D8BF8834D4946BA29CC0536021892A33DF8 at educm02.education.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Our study design is more detailed than most. To gauge some sense of
detail consider the essence of each outcome statement, because at the
end of the day that is what students are demonstrating. Also read the
performance descriptors carefully (located in Assessment handbook) as
they give an indication of attributes that should be present in student
work at different levels of performance. You should also get a sense of
the relative importance of key knowledge and key skills from the set of
descriptors. Past examination papers also provide an insight into depth.
Study designs are not prescriptive to allow for flexibility within a
construct.
Regards
Paula
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Maggie Iaquinto
Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 9:02 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to
writetheirownmaterial ?
How prescriptive are the study designs of, say, Media Studies or History
or Specialist Maths? Are we the only ones without such detail?
The textbooks have (minor) errors. In ITA, eg, the use of hubs instead
of switches is an embarassment. The other parts of the textbook(s) I am
grateful for. The Dawson and Janson book for SD handles many difficult
topics to an incredible depth. Will these items be on the final exam?
Another example: how many topics within Project Management should be
taught and how deeply?
I have never in my life put together a bus network and some techs in the
schools where I have worked have no idea either. Token ring?
Do other study designs have Outcomes and Solutions provided for them -
which are VCAA approved?
Maggie
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Stephen Digby
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 6:10 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write
theirownmaterial ?
Hate to return to a hoary old chestnut, but what we need is a real
curriculum.
VCE studies (and VELs for that matter) are merely specifications
prepared at
the end of the analysis and design phases with a few suggestions re. the
development stage.
The development stage should have been contracted out among the huge
range
of talent that we see glimpses of on this list.
The product should have been bench tested during development either with
teacher feedback or classroom trials.
The product would consist of not only docuementation about content
delivery,
sequence, supporting activities etc
- but also software versions of sacs and sample excellent responses that
are
acheivable within the docuemnted timelines.
i.e.
We should be supported with a full recipe for excellent implementation
of
the course.
Some of the published commercial course support materials (usually
called
"texts" althouth they are and should be much more than this) come some
way
towards this e.g. ITA Potts with question answers, sac samples (only
single
version and limited solutions).
Teachers should NOT be spending time on course writing. It is a job for
the
gifted and the specialised.
Teachers should be spending time outside class on on planning,
preparation,
correction, and communication (students and parents).
One of the key reasons why the phrase 're-inventing the wheel" has such
resonance with teachers is that we are continually creating our tools of
trade, rather than using them.
Teachers have a deep suspicion of sharing - this list is one of the
eceptions that prove the rule.
We hide behind some legalisms and ignore others. E.g. ALL work we
created
while working full time is automatically owned by our empoloyer
regardless
of when we create it.
Our VCE regulator body (e.g. VCAA) forces us to adopt a mind set that
all
trainee teachers are warned against - guess what is in the teachers mind
-
"You make up a SAC - and I'll tell you if it meets all my criteria. No
-
I'm not going to show you an example or 3 of an excellent SAC and an
excellent response."
Imagine a world where there was a digital commons that individuals
contributed to and into which governments donated selected commercially
developed resourecs that they believed would improve the educational
outcomes for the children of their citzens and perhjaps the citizens of
countries unable to develop material sof such quality.
Imagine that this commons encouraged development of resources and
recontribution of altered resources (changes for cultural flavour,
difficulty, content emphsis etc.).......
====================================================
Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
====================================================
Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical. Yogi Berra
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Kevork Krozian
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:32 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write theirown
material ?
Hi Adrian and Mark,
Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
keep
avoiding.
If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
about
teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
be
fair to the students and ourselves.
In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
instructor,
you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not know a bus
network
even if you were run over by one.
I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
active
and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers unable
to
write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with solutions
they
can show others ?
I would say because the training and the need for new and current
training
has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do we do about
this
?
I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and need
to
go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever else we
need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver updated
courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
they
can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
Just my thoughts
Kevork
>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
more complex.
In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
Adrian Janson wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
SAC
> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
of
> a concern.
>
>
>
> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
spirit
> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
not
> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
this
> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
to
> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
> another teachers name on it.
>
>
>
> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
the
> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
the
> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
it
> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
this?
>
>
>
> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
deal.
>
>
>
> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
SACs
> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
number
> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
SACs
> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
provide
> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
seems
> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
> materials and/or solutions.
>
>
>
> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
use. I
> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
the
> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
familiar
> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
students a
> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
of
> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
I
> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
> picture.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adrian Janson
>
> VITTA President
>
> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
Gordon A
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
>
>
> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
> Stephenson...
>
> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
name
> on it if you change it.
>
>
>
> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
> scheme looks good.
>
>
>
> gordon
>
>
>
> ----------------
>
> Gordon Poultney
>
> Horsham College
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
> What about a simpler attribution such as
>
> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
by
> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>
> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
attribution
> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
info
> re. source).
>
> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
sharing.
>
> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
because of
> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>
> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
> possible....
>
> ====================================================
> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> ====================================================
>
> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
> Churchill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
> Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>
> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>
> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
the
> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
modifiers
> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>
> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
by some
> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
if I
> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>
> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>
> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
version
> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
for their
> labours!
>
> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>
> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
the
> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
purposes by
> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
as it
> morphs through the ether.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mark
>
> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
morphed
> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
- for
> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
diagram
> for the teacher too.
>> cheers Gordon
>>
>> ----------------
>> Gordon Poultney
>> Horsham College
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>>
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>> design
>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
You
>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
discretely.
>>
>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>> Outcome.
>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
the
>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
just
>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
40/10.
>>
>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
this
>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>
>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
report.
>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
of
>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>
>> Just an opinion.
>>
>> Maggie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
part
>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>
>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>> > Hi Ross,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
would
>> do,
>> > for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
students
>> > have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
a
>> > study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>> > conditions)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
to
>> the
>> > holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
do
>> just
>> > for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
I
>> don't
>> > even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Claudia Graham
>> >
>> > Overnewton College
>> >
>> > Keilor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> > *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
Ross
>> > A
>> > *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>> > *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>> > *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>> > Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
this).
>> > My
>>
>> > question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
am
>> on
>> > the right track.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > i. Can/should they access the internet.
>> >
>> > ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
through
>> the
>> > Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kindest Regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > **Ross Ogilvie **
>> >
>> > **LSF ICT Leader **
>> >
>> > **Sunbury**** College**
>> >
>> > **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>> >
>> > **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>> >
>> > ** (H) 54272843**
>> >
>> > **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>> >
>> > **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>> > --
>> > Mark Kelly
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail:
8520
9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
all
the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
buy a new bomber.
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
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Authority
and http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
-
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority
and http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
-
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
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opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
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_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
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http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
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_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
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Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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