[Year 12 SofDev] choosing a language for 2008
Claudia Graham
claudia.graham at overnewton.vic.edu.au
Tue Sep 18 12:42:31 EST 2007
Hi Kevork,
I recall someone colleting data on programming languages used a few
years ago (now of course a few years ago could have been much longer ago
then my brain perceives it to be) and most people (90+%) were using some
version of VB.
This year with the number of students down around the 1500 I think I
would be pretty sure that the trend is still that, with a few pockets of
students (depending on teacher interest) doing alternative languages
such as PHP.
When it comes to guidelines for each language, it is often difficult to
do, as you noted, mainly due to students/teachers previously level of
programming experience. Also students do not need to be 'tested' on all
elements of a programming language simply exposed to it. So I do a
number of 'input this' type exercises, but I would never ask them to
display those skills from scratch in an assessment piece as they have
limited exposure prior to starting Unit 3.
Regards
Claudia
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Kevork Krozian
Sent: 18 September 2007 10:50 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] choosing a language for 2008
Hi Andrew ( Grimshaw ),
I suspect most people use a VB variant ( ver 6, .net ) but I am not
sure that there is hard evidence or a census of usage.
We can ask Paula or Maggie as assessor if she has any insights into any
school usage data.
I think a comprehensive survey would be worthwhile.
Of the 3000 or so students in the state I wonder what numbers are using
which language ?
I use PHP ( having used Java for the past 5 years ) and I know of a
colleague up the road who also used PHP so I am not sure of its
prevalence.
Also, there would be a few C users I would imagine as well as Java.
I also feel there may be a big difference in performance of schools.
Maybe we need firm(er) guidelines on requirements for EACH language ( I
see Paula cringe ! ).
Eg. If we use a database do we need to use a relational database or only
one table ??
What is a networked information system objective as required in
the programming ?
What level of difficulty is required to be incorporated in each
task/language category ?
Are there schools NOT using a database for either of their
programming SACs ? That may be against the guidelines.
Recall the specifications of the programming language used
(http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/correspondence/bulletins/2007/june/07JUNBUL.
pdf) :
Students will use one programming language from the accompanying list,
to develop purpose-designed software. In
the development of this software, students should be able to:
* develop a graphical user interface (GUI), for use in portable
* computing devices, such as laptops, personal digital assistants,
gaming consoles, mobile phones
* construct and use data structures, for example arrays,strings, sets,
lists, tables, records and stacks
* design, construct and use files to store and retrieve data
* design and apply data-validation techniques
* use program control structures: selection, iteration and sequencing.
The purpose-designed software will entail the use of objects, methods
and their properties, and event-driven
programming.
Now if the exam only covers loops, branching and other 3G constructs (
the last point above ), then is a school in trouble for only using
these in the SACs and not OOP or similar ?
Lots of questions ......
Take Care
Kevork Krozian
IT Manager , Forest Hill College
k.krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au
http://www.fhc.vic.edu.au
Mobile: 0419 356 034
>>> "Andrew Shortell" <a.shortell at braemar.vic.edu.au> 18/09/2007 10:38
am >>>
I'd go with dot net BUT I would be setting it up now and testing it now
not waiting for next year. Unless you technician is willing to ask for
help from people that are willing to help then it will never be set up
correctly. It is an absolute pain to get permissions right unless you
ask for help from others who have already done it.
If you have a mandatory profile rather than giving individual students
their own roaming profile it adds more difficulties - SOME of which can
be overcome
Most of the programming constructs we use in the exam in pseudo code are
actually 3G not OOP so you need to teach those things like loops,
selects, sorts etc and use exercises to reinforce
I use dot net in yr 10, 11 and 12 and stil have students who struggle
with it in Sof Dev (it's the I come to school for the parties syndrome
again)
At least there are plenty of people on thislist who will help as over
60% of schools are using vb or vb dot net
Good luck
Andrew Shortell
Braemar College
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-
> bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2007 10:22 AM
> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] choosing a language for 2008
>
> VB6 'cos...
>
> 1. I already was familiar with it and did not have time to learn a
new
> language in 2007
> 2. It's free for gov't schools
> 3. Lotsa support
> 4. It has all the classical programming constructs (except pointers),
> making a good jumping-off point to other languages
> 5. It's RAD
> 6. It's relatively easy to teach (BASIC began as a teaching language)
>
> Next year, however, I'm going to start with the non-GUI aspects such
as
> loops, IF, arrays, variables. If kids start with textboxes etc some
> never comprehend the concept of code in the background behind the GUI.
>
> Actually, I'm tempted to dust off QuickBASIC 4.5 to force them to
learn
> classic coding before letting them get near listboxes etc.
>
> Oh. And why am I not using VB2005 Express? 'Cos we had endless
trouble
> with .NET permissions and could not get it stable in time for the
first
> programming outcome.
>
> Mark
>
> Andrew Grimshaw wrote:
> > HI every1
> >
> > as a new teacher of SofDev i am hoping to get some advice about
which
> > language to use next year
> >
> > the students have used visual basic this year in Unit 1 and 2
> >
> > i have basically narrowed it down to a choice between:
> >
> > visual basic, C++ and J#
> >
> > what languages do u all use?
> >
> > i am also hoping people can recommend some good source books for me
to
> > use to get myself up to scratch also - i have not used C since uni
and
> > have never used Java
> >
> > thx
> > andrew grimshaw
> > colac college
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 95789253
> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> It's 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'.
> Spelling is not an art, it's a sceince.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
Overnewton Anglican Community College
A school for the whole family celebrating 21 years of quality education in the North West of Melbourne.
Winner of the 2007 Australian Chamber of Commerce and Business Council of Australia National Work and Family Award for a Medium-sized Business.
EOWA Australia's Leading Organisation for the Advancement of Women (less than 500 employees) in 2005
An EOWA Employer of Choice since 2002.
http://www.overnewton.vic.edu.au/
Keilor Campus Taylors Lakes Campus
2-30 Overnewton Road 39 - 57 Robertsons Road
Keilor, Victoria, 3036 Taylors Lakes, Victoria, 3038
Tel: 03 9334 0000 Tel: 03 9334 0000
Fax: 03 9336 1835 Fax: 03 9390 5144
----------------------------------------------
More information about the sofdev
mailing list