[Yr7-10it] Scratch, Gamemaker, VB.net, Python, PHP and MySQL - Programming for all levels

Mon Sep 17 13:30:53 EST 2007

Published by The Department of Communications, Information Technology and
the Arts in June 2006 is a document called 'Building Australian ICT Skills -
Report of the ICT Skills foresighting working
group<http://www.dcita.gov.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.dcita.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/40270/Building_Australian_ICTskills.pdf&rank=5&collection=search>'

http://www.dcita.gov.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.dcita.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/40270/Building_Australian_ICTskills.pdf&rank=5&collection=search

Page 10 of this document is in the 'Key findings and recommendations'
section and deals with ICT in Schools.

 *The Working Group expressed concerns that the quality of ICT teaching in
schools, and the outmoded image of ICT work presented, may be deterring
students from considering ICT as an option for further study at
university/TAFE and as a career choice. This was an issue that also received
considerable attention at the partICipaTion Summit.*

 *In particular the Working Group raised concerns about the teaching of ICT
as a specialised subject in the later school years. The Working Group
considered that the focus should be on teaching fundamental ICT principles,
useful as a foundation for further study, rather than on specific
programming areas.*

The last sentence is of particular interest and may impact on language
decisions.

Peter

On 17/09/2007, Bill Kerr <billkerr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There is both some overlap and need to explain more (similarities /
> differences) b/w my list and tony's list
>
> plus a few important things are left off both our lists:
>
>    - the language has been designed with children's learning
>    developmental needs taken into consideration (logo pioneered this perhaps)
>    - ability to run the finished product on the web
>    - good, cheap resource materials available for educators / teachers
>
> tony: "easy entry level programming with drag and drop programming"
> bill: "good visual drag and drop of some type"
>
> The drag and drop candidates are game maker, scratch and etoys (there
> maybe some others?)
> my ranking of easy entry for those brought up on conventional interfaces
> would be  scratch, then game maker then etoys
> etoys is unconventional with its morphic interface but which I think is
> better, so there is a steeper initial learning / adaptation curve for those
> brought up on a conventional windows GUI
>
> tony: "top end extensibility through fully featured text based
> programming"
> bill: "low entry - high ceiling"
>
> The transition from visual (easier but limited) to text is important even
> though you can do a hell of a lot with the visual languages mentioned above.
> I would like to investigate this issue more but at the moment would be
> inclined to agree with tony that game maker wins out here. From what I know
> scratch is a non starter and doesn't offer high ceiling. Etoys is good in
> this respect - you make scripts from tiles and you can observe the text code
> with one click. Game maker is similar when I think about it - one click to
> see the pseudo code of what the drag and drop has made. The transition from
> etoys to the more advanced smalltalk programming is far from smooth; in some
> respects they are two different programs co-existing within the same
> program. Developmental work on new versions of etoys is going ahead as we
> speak though. That leaves game maker where at least the visual programming
> and the text code can co-exist readi! ly in the same program.
>
> tony: "licencing which allows kids to continue to work at home for free"
> bill: "ability to share fully with other children in the world, rich or
> poor (ie. open source,  multi-lingual, its on the OLPC)"
>
> One of the problems with game makers free version accompanied with a more
> advanced proprietary version is that if you want to share with everyone
> (including poor kids who live in Africa) you then have to restrict yourself
> to the tools available in the free version. I became frustrated with this
> when making africa country game. Game maker free version only offers arrays
> for storing storing and manipulating data. To access the other data
> structures (stacks, queues, lists, maps and priority queues) you need to
> proprietary version. I don't like the idea of being restricted in what I can
> share with those who can't afford it.
>
> btw I read the article that tony linked to:
> Objective Comparison of Languages for Teaching Introductory Programming
>
> I think it's a poor article but it did bring home to me the difficulties
> involved for teachers in selecting a programming language for use with
> students. Not only is there a lot of languages to choose from there is also
> a lot of different opinions about "objective comparisons"
>
> - Bill
> --
> Bill Kerr
> http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/
> http://www.users.on.net/~billkerr/ <http://www.users.on.net/%7Ebillkerr/>
> skype: billkerr2006
>
>
>
> On 9/15/07, Tony Forster < forster at ozonline.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Bill wrote:
> > "here's my list, which is what inclines me towards  etoys  / squeak:"
> >
> > An alternate list:
> > easy entry level programming with drag and drop programming
> > a true versatile programming environment, not just selecting from
> > limited
> > scenarios
> > top end extensibility through fully featured text based programming
> > licencing which allows kids to continue to work at home for free
> > http://tonyforster.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html
> > Game programming tools
> >
> > or
> > An Objective Comparison of Languages for Teaching Introductory
> > Programming
> > http://www.it.uu.se/research/group/upcerg/Publications/proceedingsKoliCalling2006/research2.pdf
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Free and Open education for all

Peter Ruwoldt
Grant High School
Hosking Avenue
MOUNT GAMBIER  SA  5290

P. 08 87263107 (Do not leave voice mail)
F. 08 87250173

ruwoldtp at granths.sa.edu.au
http://www.watiwara.com/

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