[Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance - from your humble Administrator
Stefanatos, Elizabeth E
stefanatos.elizabeth.e at edumail.vic.gov.au
Sat Feb 3 17:50:50 EST 2007
Bravo Kervok!!
-----Original Message-----
From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Kevork Krozian
Sent: Sat 2/3/2007 2:48 PM
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance - from your humble Administrator
A very good morning to you all,
I hope your first week was a reasonable one and there wasn't too much grie=
f grappling with changes - we went from a 6 to a 4 period day , and I have 5=
classes, 4 new ( 3 with new study designs, one not taught before ) so it is=
a brisk pace at present.
Back to the issue with requesting assistance raised by John.
There does not come a time when all of us at some point , do not need assis=
tance. I asked for help on VB.NET 18 months ago as I had a need ( blind stud=
ent in my class could not use Java ) and modified what I found to suit my cl=
ass.
This year I asked for help on Gamemaker as I am teaching a Year 8 IT class f=
or the first time and have to see what level tasks are at. To prepare a set=
of tasks and then revise them or throw them out after submitting it to the=
list for feedback seems a tortuous path to take. I have worked with colleag=
ues who have taken a similar attitude when asked for assistance, with commen=
ts like " now I want to see how much of this you do on your own before I wil=
l consider helping you ...." to which I have replied in the past with " than=
ks but no thanks and you may need me one day and I will take the same attitu=
de that you have shown " but with more colourful language than this quote. N=
eedless to say everyone suffered with that approach - me, him and our studen=
ts.
It is very rare to be able to receive something from the lists and immediate=
ly hand it to the students in exactly the same form . We always have to adju=
st, adapt, improve, dumb down, make more rigorous or do a number of other ad=
justments before it fits our cohort. One size rarely fits all.
Another example was a request for a timeline a week ago, for Software Develo=
pment with the Fitzpatrick and Keane textbook. It took me about 4 hours to p=
repare mine. Another teacher asked for it and I gladly handed it over and po=
sted it on the web site for others to use. What is the point of multiplying=
the work of 4 hours times two or three hundred teachers ????? I am sure one=
or more of them would also offer some other work I would need in future tha=
t would save me a comparable amount of time.
The key is to make sure we keep giving feedback and helping the contributor=
with their development as well by running a professional eye over the work=
and communicating our view of it back to them for further refinement. That=
is the point Adrian made. He would love feedback as it would help me be a b=
etter teacher.
In conclusion, John has expressed an opinion that the majority of us do not=
agree with, some more forcefully than others. But, that is the point of the=
se lists, to express a view, inform, clarify and argue - as long as we keep=
to the rules. So Maggie, we do love you dearly but your email was a little=
, let's say, not becoming of the professional esteem in which we all hold y=
ou .... !!!
I hope we all keep sharing , and especially the new or younger or less exper=
ienced teachers. Please, please, please do not hesitate to ask for help. We=
will all be the better for it.
Vive la difference !!!
I also welcome feedback as I hope that will make me a better Mailing List Ad=
ministrator .
Best wishes to you all with your classes in 2007
Kevork Krozian
Mailing List Creator and Administrator
kevork at edulists.com.au
www.edulists.com.au
Tel: 0419 356 034
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Jansen <mailto:cjjansen at gmail.com>
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List <mailto:yr7-1=
0it at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance
Maybe he was just being the devils advocate to get people fired up so he wo=
uld get more emails in his inbox sort through.... ha ha
I'm not sure he achieved what he really wanted, that being less emails.. ha=
ha ha bad luck John. BTW all us experienced ITers have set up a rule in our=
email inbox to divert these emails to a place so that they don't clog up ou=
r inbox and we can sift through them at a nicer time. ie. not after holidays=
.
Maybe what we could post is a"how to" on setting up a rule in different ema=
il applications
thanks heaps all,
Go sharing of ideas..
On 2/2/07, Adrian Janson <jansona at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Adding my voice to the chorus.... !!
Enough has probably been said, however, there are a few important things t=
o
consider.
Firstly, these lists exist for this very purpose - so please if you need
resources, put a request out there and those of us who have them are usual=
ly
very happy to post them for all to make use of as they wish.
Secondly, I still remember what it is like as a first year out teacher - y=
ou
have very few resources to draw on and often you are the only IT teacher i=
n
your school. This is the sort of networking that VCAA (especially) really=
wants us to be doing, to ensure that courses are delivered in the right wa=
y
and criteria are followed.
So please - don't hesitate to post a request for assistance! ... and on t=
he
flip side of that coin - don't be shy about posting your own material to t=
he
lists. There are some of us that post a lot, but many of us who don't.
Don't feel that you will be judged - because you won't. Every contributio=
n
enriches the whole experience..... When I post documents, I write somethi=
ng
like 'here is (such and such).... feel free to modify it or let me know wh=
at
you think!'.... I really feel that if 1 person finds any of my material
useful, then I have done a good deed - and those that can't use it, don't.=
Cheers,
Adrian Janson
VITTA President
Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
-----Original Message-----
From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au <mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.c=
om.au>
[mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Geoff Moss
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 11:31 PM
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance
Hear!! Hear!! Keith, Therese, Maggie.
Haven't we all at some time copied or borrowed ideas and materials from
others? Then we have modified it and made it suit our students or purpose=
s.
Didn't we borrow ideas of our mentors on teaching rounds and in our early
years of teaching.
Heaven bid, isn't a textbook the work and ideas of someone else who has be=
en
prepared to distribute their ideas for others to use and share.
John, I assume that you therefore don't use a textbook, refer to or use
resources on this mailing list and the VITTA website, or use or modify ide=
as
presented and distributed at conferences, etc. Also I assume you do not u=
se
such references as Mark Kelly's website, wikipedia and howstuffworks.
We all do it and it is not the right or privilege of "experienced" teacher=
s
to copy ideas and materials from others. We are learners and and learning=
,
sharing ideas, materials and resources for the common good of our students
and to encourage and develop the skills of fellow teachers.
We are so lucky that there are a few teachers (I wont mention names lest I=
leave out someone) on the mailing list who are continually prepared to
contribute and share their ideas more than most of the rest of us, for whi=
ch
the majority are truly grateful.
Thanks to the mailing list and its many contributors and the authors of ou=
r
textbooks over the years I, for one, am better prepared and more able to
deliver the ITA, and former IPM, courses without having to go back and
reinvent the wheel. I have been able to provide a wider range of
stimulating materials to my classes than I would have done on my own.
I am also one who has not contributed as much as many others, however, I a=
m
sure the many contributors don't think any less of me and others in this
category, ([Though we should contribute when we can) because they all shar=
e
for the common good of providing for the the eduction of all students, not
just their own.
So Vinod, and any other first year IT teachers, welcome to the list and we=
encourage you to keep seeking assistance from fellow colleagues and may yo=
u
have success with your class during the year.
Geoff Moss
RMIT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Richardson" < keithcr at fastmail.fm>
To: "Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List"
<yr7-10it at edulists.com.au >
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance
> John - shame! What is wrong with people "using" the ideas of others? I
> do it all of the time, and learn heaps from it.
> The big risk of negative comments like yours is it can "scare off" timid
> teachers who are not wanting to offend, but want to professionally
> provide the best possible for their students.
> My self confidence over the years has grown from receiving the
> unconditional support of others, and I then feel freed (by this) to
> offer my help whenever it is sought.
> Everyone - seek and you shall find. Remain silent and you will remain
> lost. Do not be intimidated by negative comments.
> Keith.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 20:59:26 +1100, "Therese Keane"
> < Therese.Keane at genazzano.vic.edu.au <mailto:Therese.Keane at genazzano.vic=
.edu.au> > said:
>> I have to disagree with your comments John.
>>
>> Given only this week, it was reported in the media that large numbers o=
f
>> new teachers do not "hang around" in the teaching profession past 5
>> years. This in itself should ring alarm bells.
>>
>> Firstly, I have no problems in helping first year teachers with using m=
y
>> materials. Over the years, I (like many other people, including Maggie!=
)
>> ran sessions on behalf of VITTA where I freely gave away my materials.=
I
>> did not mind that teachers used them in their own classes. All teachers
>> no matter how many years of experience need help, support and
>> assistance. Like many other people in the IT community, I am not alone
>> in the sharing of resources.
>>
>> After all, why have a list at all if people do not want to share ideas
>> or resources? This is recognised by VITTA who have just produced a CD
>> full of resources. I strongly believe that anyone has the right to ask
>> for assistance and should not be made to feel intimidated by comments
>> like yours.
>>
>> With respect to Information Technology Applications it is often the cas=
e
>> that there is only 1 teacher in the school and so they need support fro=
m
>> the broader IT community, especially if they are a first timer. Please=
>> treat first timers with the same amount of support that you would expec=
t
>> if you were in their position.
>>
>> Therese
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
>> iaquinto at ozemail.com.au
>> Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 7:57 PM
>> To: yr7-10it at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance
>>
>> Thanks for your comments, John. I'm afraid I must let you know that you
>> have made these comments on the wrong list. Yeps. Please subscribe to
>> the curmudgeon list and you will find sentiments similar to yours.
>>
>> Maggie
>>
>> Quoting John Torey <jtorey at parade.vic.edu.au>:
>>
>> > Dear IPMers,
>> >
>> > I know this is late but I have over 100 emails still to sort through=
>> > from over the break, but seriously, this process of just asking for
>> > work to look at is just a polite attempt to gain work in order to
>> > minimise the amount of work to do.
>> >
>> > If people are qualified to teach IT then they should be able to write
>> > it themselves and then use the appropriate IT list ( not this one for
>> > IPM but use the IPM list) to show it and let the experienced Iters
>> > look at at it and respond if it looks good.
>> >
>> > First timers should stop trying to get the work for nothing.
>> >
>> > Lets get real and encourage first timers to do the work and not copy=
>> > work.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > John Torey
>> > Mathematics Convenor (taught IT/IPM between 1992 - 2003) Parade
>> > College - Bundoora VIC
>> > (03) 9468 3300
>> > jtorey at parade.vic.edu.au
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> > [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
>> > narayanv at yeahs.vic.edu.au
>> > Sent: Friday, 15 December 2006 8:35 AM
>> > To: yr7-10it at edulists.com.au
>> > Subject: [Yr7-10it] IPM2007 assistance
>> >
>> > Hi Keith
>> > I will be teaching IPM 3 & 4 in 2007 for the first time. If you have
>> > done any planning based on the text below, I would be pleased to have=
>> > a look at it to assist me teaching IPM next year.
>> > It would be of great help.
>> > I would be also be too happy to receive work set for outcomes 1 and 2=
.
>> > Your assistance will be greatly appreciated.
>> > Thank you.
>> > Vinod Narayan
>> > Yea High School.
>> >
>> > "Information Technology Applications VCE Units 3 & 4 - EDITION: 2 -
>> >> ISBN: 0170130258
>> >> AUTHORS: Colin Potts, Therese Keane, Janet Lancaster, James Lawson,
>> >> Margaret Lawson"
>> >
>> >
>> > "Keith Richardson" < keithcr at fastmail.fm <mailto:keithcr at fastmail.fm>=
> on Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:42:38
>> > +1100 wrote:
>> >> Does anyone have proofs of this book for next year?
>> >>
>> >> "Information Technology Applications VCE Units 3 & 4 - EDITION: 2 -=
>> >> ISBN: 0170130258
>> >> AUTHORS: Colin Potts, Therese Keane, Janet Lancaster, James Lawson,
>> >> Margaret Lawson"
>> >>
>> >> REASON - I want to do my detailed planning now, and will be happy to=
>> >> share it with others through this list.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers, Keith
>> >> Keith Richardson
>> >> IPM List Moderator
>> >> Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College
>> >> Elsternwick
>> >> Ph: 03.9528.4911
>> >> k.richardson at yavneh.vic.edu.au
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> >> Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by
>> >> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> >> Authority and http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information=
>> >> Technology Teachers Association Inc
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > narayanv at yeahs.vic.edu.au
>> > http://www.yeahs.vic.edu.au/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> > Year
>> > 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au
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>> > Teachers Association Inc
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> > Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by
>> > http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> > Authority and http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information
>> > Technology Teachers Association Inc
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by
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>> Teachers Association Inc
> Keith Richardson
> ITA List Moderator
> Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College
> Elsternwick
> Ph: 03.9528.4911
> k.richardson at yavneh.vic.edu.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authori=
ty
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teache=
rs
> Association Inc
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