[Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] syseng Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1

Tue Nov 19 01:33:17 UTC 2019

Hi Systems Engineering teachers

Seems like you are raising some important issues and concerns about the
Systems Engineering exam in your emails.

Just thought I'd let you know that VCAA is currently conducting
an examination survey so you can provide your feedback directly, but it
closes on 25 November, which doesn't give you much time.

Here's a link to the memo about the survey, which includes a link to the
survey.

https://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/administration/schooladministration/notices/2019/Pages/137.aspx

Direct link to the survey is
https://smsurveys.com.au/survey/Examinationfeedback2019.aspx?ver=1403431412

Regards, Lorraine Tran

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 8:59 AM Michael Slinger <
Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au> wrote:

> Q13 is an odd context, but it's also roughly 25 years since I ran a bunch
> of extension leads with a double adapter on the end so that I could have a
> tv and bar fridge in my cubby house to watch the cricket. Nothing beats
> after school ice-cold cokes and the peace to have Richie et al
> uninterrupted during the post-tea session. I suppose that's a similarly
> electrically inefficient situation of connecting devices.
>
>
>
> Michael Slinger
> Systems Engineering and STEM Teacher
> Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syseng <syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Brendan D'Arcy
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 November 2019 8:26 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] syseng Digest,
> Vol 158, Issue 1
>
> Good morning Michael,
>
> I totally agree! Where was the creativity aspect and the engineering
> design?
>
> Whilst many of the questions were good questions, some were just too
> specific/complex in my experience.
>
> Some of the resistor circuits (series-parallel circuits) were very complex
> compared to past exams and relevant text books demonstrate.
>
> Yes question 3 could be interpreted in many ways. 11 wiring connections
> for only 3 marks....how will this be marked, is a good question?
>
> Questions 4, unless you studied this exact circuit as a class, most
> students wouldn't have the knowledge or experience to answer this.
> Having to work out the Zener diode reverse voltage from the graph is not
> so obvious for many students. Then to subtract the 0.6V from the transistor
> B-E junction to find the output voltage would challenge some of the
> students.
>
> And you are correct, being able to fault find is another thing again. The
> capacitor was underrated for the application, and I suspect the Rb 50k Ohm
> resistor was too large in value. I doubt many students have seen this
> circuit before. Questions 4b, 4c, 4d were tough questions! Beyond the
> ability/recognition of the majority of students?
>
> Question 13? What did you think of that one? 240V extension leads over
> 200m between buildings? At least these questions would be worked out but
> the application was a bit strange.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brendan.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syseng [mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 9:15 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1
>
> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
> syseng at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11 (Michael Slinger)
>    2. Re: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11 (Roger Knight)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:28:36 +0000
> From: Michael Slinger <Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
> To: Design and Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> <destech at edulists.com.au>, "syseng at edulists.com.au"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] destech
> Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
> Message-ID: <e9aa684ad35941c2a3801b2cf9571ef4 at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks for starting the discussion Brendan,
>
> I agree with you that there are some questions that are quite difficult.
> But I recognise there needs to be difficult questions as a discriminator at
> the high end of achievement.
>
> A couple that I'm interested in:
> I'd be interested in seeing how Q3 was interpreted by students. Depending
> on how it's marked, there may be a bunch of 2/3 marks for that one. I'm not
> certain how the writers intended the initial connections to be done. The
> rest should be straight-forward for a high-achieving student.
>
> Q4 could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways; particularly the
> mistake questions. I’d be interested in your interpretation of this
> question.
>
> Whilst there is always going to be disagreement of what is "too hard for
> school students", the biggest misstep (in my opinion) is the over-emphasis
> on purely calculation-type questions at the expense of questions where
> students have to design a system to solve a problem/meet a set of
> performance specifications. I don't know if this was a panel-level decision
> or a VCAA-level decision, but that type of problem solving is core to what
> engineering is. From the study design: "identify and represent mechanical
> and electrotechnological systems in diagrammatic and symbolic forms", and
> "select appropriate mechanical and electrotechnological subsystems,
> materials and components, and produce operational systems and subsystems".
>
> Interested in getting others' thoughts.
>
> Cheers
> Michael Slinger
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael Slinger
> Systems Engineering and STEM Teacher
> Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
> -----Original Message-----
> From: destech <destech-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Brendan
> D'Arcy
> Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 12:08 PM
> To: destech at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Design and Technology] destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I have just been reading through and working out some of the answers for
> todays unit 3/4 Systems engineering exam.
>
> Has anyone else been through it?
>
> It seems to be extremely difficult and at times way above the level of
> knowledge required for secondary students.
> I am an electronics engineer (now systems teacher) and I really think the
> level of skill required was excessive for this exam.
>
> Written by someone from a university?
>
> What do other Systems teachers think about the exam content, wording and
> examples?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brendan D’Arcy (TNBD)
> Senior School Teacher
> VCE Systems Engineering,
> Level A-E Design & Systems Technology and Mathematics Kardinia
> International College PO Box 17, Geelong, Victoria, 3220, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 5278 9999          Fax:  +61 3 5278 9529 I
> b.darcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au  Click to find KIC I www.kardinia.vic.edu.au I
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: destech [mailto:destech-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> destech-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Friday, 15 November 2019 9:21 AM
> To: destech at edulists.com.au
> Subject: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
>
> Send destech mailing list submissions to destech at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/destech
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> destech-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> destech-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of destech digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Technician job (Royale, Melissa M)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 22:23:08 +0000
> From: "Royale, Melissa M" <royale.melissa.m at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> To: "destech at edulists.com.au" <destech at edulists.com.au>
> Subject: [Design and Technology] Technician job
> Message-ID: <95af122ee12d4c75a58e453c1123cd8e at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Patterson River Secondary College is currently advertising the positon of
> Design Technology Technician. Please forward the following link to anyone
> who may be interested:
>
>
> https://schooljobs.education.vic.gov.au/psc/ROLPPRD1_EA/APPLICANT/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_APP_SCHJOB.GBL?Page=HRS_APP_JBPST&Action=U&FOCUS=Applicant&SiteId=1&JobOpeningId=1176931&PostingSeq=1&utm_source=joraau&utm_campaign=joraau&utm_medium=organic
>
> For enquiries please contact Lisa Cavey, Acting Principles, (03) 8770
> 6700, cavey.lisa.l at edumail.vic.gov.au
>
> Regards,
>
> Melissa Royale
> Design Technology Domain Leader
>
> [cid:image001.jpg at 01D4D2AC.CAD91820]<http://www.prsc.vic.edu.au/>
>
> [cid:image002.jpg at 01D4D2AC.CAD91820]<http://www.prsc.vic.edu.au/>
>
> P 03 8770 6700      E patterson.river.sc at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:
> patterson.river.sc at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Facebook /PattersonRiverSC<http://www.facebook.com/pattersonriversc>
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>
>
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> End of destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 10:18:07 +0000
> From: Roger Knight <RKnight at stpats.vic.edu.au>
> To: Design and Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> <destech at edulists.com.au>, "syseng at edulists.com.au"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] destech
> Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
> Message-ID:
> <0111a2c9ecf740f98c3c803d43d36f1a at shalimar.stpats.vic.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi all
>
> I agree with Brendan. Also, I have always been concerned by the fact that
> the key knowledge for unit 3 outcome 1 is intended by VCAA to be learned by
> the student in the process of designing and commencing production of a
> mechatronic system with control. The reality is that this key knowledge
> also needs to be taught as theory.
> The study design lists more than 58 different components, concepts and
> principles as key knowledge in unit 3 outcome 1. There is no indication as
> to what level of understanding the student is expected to come to during
> the course yet it is this very list of concepts and principles that the
> exam is almost entirely based on. I find this level of ambiguity even more
> alarming than degree of difficulty pointed out by Brendan.
> The student then faces the daunting prospect of sitting the paper not
> really knowing if they are fully prepared. Russian roulette.
> I think it’s a great study. But there needs to be more clarity regarding
> the depth that the student is expected to have in the concepts listed.
>
> [Logo]<http://www.stpats.vic.edu.au>
> Roger Knight
> Senior School Team
> Technology Faculty
> Tel: +61 3 5322 4310
>
> [Facebook]<https://www.facebook.com/spcoca>     [Twitter] <
> https://twitter.com/spcballarat>     [LinkedIn] <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/st-patrick's-college-ballarat>
>
>
>
> www.stpats.vic.edu.au<http://www.stpats.vic.edu.au>
>
>
> [Banner Image]<https://directory.stpats.vic.edu.au/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: destech <destech-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Michael
> Slinger
> Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 6:29 PM
> To: Design and Technology Teachers' Mailing List <destech at edulists.com.au>;
> syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Design and Technology] destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
>
> Thanks for starting the discussion Brendan,
>
> I agree with you that there are some questions that are quite difficult.
> But I recognise there needs to be difficult questions as a discriminator at
> the high end of achievement.
>
> A couple that I'm interested in:
> I'd be interested in seeing how Q3 was interpreted by students. Depending
> on how it's marked, there may be a bunch of 2/3 marks for that one. I'm not
> certain how the writers intended the initial connections to be done. The
> rest should be straight-forward for a high-achieving student.
>
> Q4 could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways; particularly the
> mistake questions. I’d be interested in your interpretation of this
> question.
>
> Whilst there is always going to be disagreement of what is "too hard for
> school students", the biggest misstep (in my opinion) is the over-emphasis
> on purely calculation-type questions at the expense of questions where
> students have to design a system to solve a problem/meet a set of
> performance specifications. I don't know if this was a panel-level decision
> or a VCAA-level decision, but that type of problem solving is core to what
> engineering is. From the study design: "identify and represent mechanical
> and electrotechnological systems in diagrammatic and symbolic forms", and
> "select appropriate mechanical and electrotechnological subsystems,
> materials and components, and produce operational systems and subsystems".
>
> Interested in getting others' thoughts.
>
> Cheers
> Michael Slinger
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael Slinger
> Systems Engineering and STEM Teacher
> Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
> -----Original Message-----
> From: destech <destech-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Brendan
> D'Arcy
> Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 12:08 PM
> To: destech at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Design and Technology] destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I have just been reading through and working out some of the answers for
> todays unit 3/4 Systems engineering exam.
>
> Has anyone else been through it?
>
> It seems to be extremely difficult and at times way above the level of
> knowledge required for secondary students.
> I am an electronics engineer (now systems teacher) and I really think the
> level of skill required was excessive for this exam.
>
> Written by someone from a university?
>
> What do other Systems teachers think about the exam content, wording and
> examples?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brendan D’Arcy (TNBD)
> Senior School Teacher
> VCE Systems Engineering,
> Level A-E Design & Systems Technology and Mathematics Kardinia
> International College PO Box 17, Geelong, Victoria, 3220, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 5278 9999          Fax:  +61 3 5278 9529 I
> b.darcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au  Click to find KIC I
> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kardinia.vic.edu.au&data=02%7C01%7Crknight%40stpats.vic.edu.au%7C5dc160c3713a44bd540108d76bf8f416%7Ce037dac0bdd4497d9ef79442978a163d%7C0%7C1%7C637096589324999011&sdata=NINSRqNvGhhirZmFLSo6qOQesQho09OgWhjAvC6sJXo%3D&reserved=0
> I
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: destech [mailto:destech-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> destech-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Friday, 15 November 2019 9:21 AM
> To: destech at edulists.com.au
> Subject: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
>
> Send destech mailing list submissions to destech at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fedulists.com.au%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdestech&data=02%7C01%7Crknight%40stpats.vic.edu.au%7C5dc160c3713a44bd540108d76bf8f416%7Ce037dac0bdd4497d9ef79442978a163d%7C0%7C1%7C637096589324999011&sdata=5oR0Ki9a2WQG4Kx%2FrKLlvoQTt1hrG4h6rUHindlR%2Bic%3D&reserved=0
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> destech-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> destech-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of destech digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Technician job (Royale, Melissa M)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 22:23:08 +0000
> From: "Royale, Melissa M" <royale.melissa.m at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> To: "destech at edulists.com.au" <destech at edulists.com.au>
> Subject: [Design and Technology] Technician job
> Message-ID: <95af122ee12d4c75a58e453c1123cd8e at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Patterson River Secondary College is currently advertising the positon of
> Design Technology Technician. Please forward the following link to anyone
> who may be interested:
>
>
> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fschooljobs.education.vic.gov.au%2Fpsc%2FROLPPRD1_EA%2FAPPLICANT%2FHRMS%2Fc%2FHRS_HRAM.HRS_APP_SCHJOB.GBL%3FPage%3DHRS_APP_JBPST%26Action%3DU%26FOCUS%3DApplicant%26SiteId%3D1%26JobOpeningId%3D1176931%26PostingSeq%3D1%26utm_source%3Djoraau%26utm_campaign%3Djoraau%26utm_medium%3Dorganic&data=02%7C01%7Crknight%40stpats.vic.edu.au%7C5dc160c3713a44bd540108d76bf8f416%7Ce037dac0bdd4497d9ef79442978a163d%7C0%7C1%7C637096589324999011&sdata=vRCZuxlAL1Y83P4pQuHGIHcW6ysiT%2FIcszM237KMjwU%3D&reserved=0
>
> For enquiries please contact Lisa Cavey, Acting Principles, (03) 8770
> 6700, cavey.lisa.l at edumail.vic.gov.au
>
> Regards,
>
> Melissa Royale
> Design Technology Domain Leader
>
> [cid:image001.jpg at 01D4D2AC.CAD91820]<
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> >
>
> P 03 8770 6700      E patterson.river.sc at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:
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> Facebook /PattersonRiverSC<
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>
>
> IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
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