[Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] syseng Digest, Vol 125, Issue 12
Systems Engineering Teacher
systems-eng-teacher at hotmail.com
Mon Feb 22 16:26:00 AEDT 2016
Good afternoon Brendan,
I understand and respect your logic.
As I mentioned in my first email it depends on what and how you are going to use the printers. This includes addressing many of the issues that are attached to 3D printers such as:
sourcing reliable printers
serviceable printers
safe to use printers with students
cost effective printers
Number of printers that cater for the masses
Printers that can create an engineered product of quality and fit for the purpose
I suppose each teacher and school has to ask themselves.
What are we going to use 3D printers for?
Are we going to follow how we used plastics when they were first introduced into classrooms.
When we had students making an innovative product such as a key tag ( I am sure not all schools followed that method and they are not still using that type of product today, or are they).
I will probably put the cat amongst the pigeons if I mention that at this moment there are grade 4 and 5 primary students in a school who have started to construct a life size humanoid robot that follows voice commands using a 3D printer.
And for the naysayers, yes it is possible.
My intention is to invoke thought and a can do attitude, not criticism.
As teachers you have to do what you can do within your school.
Regards George
Sent from my iPad
> On 22 Feb 2016, at 3:15 PM, Brendan D'Arcy <B.DArcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>
> In all due respect, why would you spend $3700 on one printer when you can buy two (plus consumables - filament, etc)?
>
> I'll admit, Ultimakers/makerbots are really good, but your overall cost goes up - not just per machine, but if you need more machines in the future.
> Really, a whole class of students need more printers, rather than just one good one. We are hoping to have 1 machine per two students....but again money is the restriction.
> So we try to purchase 1-2 printers per year - or whatever the budget allows.
>
> Sure, you can get what you pay for, but the Up! Plus 2 Printers are pretty good; easy to setup, reliable with a nice print finish, and versatile.
>
> One of the bigger problems occurs when you try to print large objects - can take a long time to print!
> Design projects with several small parts, instead of larger parts (~50mm cubed or less), to increase development time for projects.
>
> For larger parts we use other materials, such as wood or acrylic. So we finish with projects made from multiple parts (good learning here!!).
>
> We have a lot of success with the UP! Plus 2 printers, and I know of several other schools who use these too.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brendan D'Arcy
> Senior School Teacher
> Department Head - Design & Systems Technology
>
>
> Kardinia International College
> PO Box 17, Geelong, Victoria, 3220, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 5278 9999 Fax: +61 3 5278 9529
> I b.darcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au Click to find KIC I www.kardinia.vic.edu.au I
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of syseng-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Monday, 22 February 2016 1:04 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 125, Issue 12
>
> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What 3D printer are you using? Ultimaker Original+ DIY
> Kit???? (Bell, Kenneth C)
> 2. Re: syseng Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9 (Brendan D'Arcy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 01:15:21 +0000
> From: "Bell, Kenneth C" <bell.kenneth.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] What 3D
> printer are you using? Ultimaker Original+ DIY Kit????
> To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <32B25904F67803428A4B8211D02D63E19C72B65F at EDUMBX01.education.vic.gov.au>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Wow!
>
> I am really loving your feedback on 3D printers.... Keep it up!.
>
> I contacted a person from DET who unofficially suggested the Ultimaker.
>
> The Ultimaker 2 ($3700) is outside of my budget of $2500 but there is the Ultimaker Original+ DIY Kit for $2400.
>
> Has anybody had a crack at building one or using one?
>
> Regards
>
>
> Ken Bell
> Mortlake College
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Bell, Kenneth C
> Sent: Monday, 22 February 2016 10:08 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] What 3D printer are you using?
>
> Hello fellow subscribers to the Systems Engineering edulist.
>
> The Parents Association just gave us a grant of $2500 to purchase a 3D printer.
>
> I would like to know from people who have a 3D printer:
>
> What they are using?
> Roughly how much it cost?
> Are they happy with it.
>
>
> You can either reply using this mailing list or email me directly at:
>
> [cid:image001.png at 01D16D6A.98957E30]
>
> Hoping that members of this mailing list can give me some feedback on which 3D printer to buy.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ken Bell
> Mortlake College
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 02:04:14 +0000
> From: "Brendan D'Arcy" <B.DArcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] syseng
> Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9
> To: "syseng at edulists.com.au" <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <7956b8c028c64cc098f48fbda7978f4c at earth-store2.kardinia.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> We are currently using the Up! Plus 2 model 3D printers from 3dprinting systems - http://3dprintingsystems.com/products/3d-printers/up-plus-2-3d-printer/ .
> They have smaller printing surfaces (110 x 100 x 130 mm approx.), but are easy to use and easy to maintain.
> We teach our students to maintain the units too.
>
> For software, we have started with fusion 360 (Autodesk) - http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/fusion-360 .
> Brilliant software considering it is free. All students have to download the software from the internet or the College network (install file).
> All student will have to sign in (create an account) with Autodesk upon installing the software - 3 year free license + free upgrades.
> Heaps of tutorials about to learn the software.
>
> As for materials, with have gone back to ABS. Not so sharp (less cuts) and easy to remove off the printer surface than PLA. Various sources.
>
> As for fumes, we are in the midst of installing an extraction system to remove the plastic smells out of the room and up into the atmosphere (sorry Earth...).
> We have a dedicated room for the 3D printers and 99% of the fumes will be exhausted. Contact http://www.labsystemsgroup.com/ in Melbourne.
> We have purchased a box/hood/enclosure to sit over each printer with an exhaust duct that eventually goes up through the ceiling under vacuum.
>
> Prior to this, we used a well ventilated area, but still had issues with air quality and smells (we have 8x 3D printers now!!).
>
> We don't tend to glue ABS parts together, but we develop projects to press of join parts using other methods. Sometimes, things like hinges can be printed all in one go (no assembly required).
> Challenge the kids, they will find a way to create these things!!
>
> If you need to know more, please contact me. Happy to help or show you around our facilities.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brendan D'Arcy
> Senior School Teacher
> Department Head - Design & Systems Technology
>
>
> Kardinia International College
> PO Box 17, Geelong, Victoria, 3220, Australia
> Ph: +61 3 5278 9999????????? Fax:? +61 3 5278 9529 I b.darcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au Click to find KIC I www.kardinia.vic.edu.au I
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of syseng-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Monday, 22 February 2016 11:31 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9
>
> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
> syseng at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What 3D printer are you using? (Systems Engineering Teacher)
> 2. Re: What 3D printer are you using? (Powell, Warren S)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:19:05 +0000
> From: Systems Engineering Teacher <systems-eng-teacher at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] What 3D
> printer are you using?
> To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <SYXPR01MB0318B853D43C28E019F59641B9A30 at SYXPR01MB0318.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> Hate to start with negative stuff, there are many pitfalls with 3D printers and using them with students.
>
> I am long time technology teacher and constantly battling with issues of using safe stuff with students.
> There is chance that there will be always one parent who will raise the issue about the fumes and dust especially using ABS ( there are concerns raised on the Internet about the safety issues with 3D printers, don't just go with MDS SHEETS on ABS).
>
> I am led to believe gluing with PLA is even a more nasty issue and ABS is not so brittle and has a bit more give.
>
> Down to what you need and what you possibly should look for. I am no expert, rather spent a lot of time looking for suitable 3D printers. Depends on what you want to make and how well you can control those enthusiastic fingers.
>
>> From what I understand the da Vinci printers are a bit allergic to enthusiastic fingers and have a lot of problems with down time.
>
> If you are making serious engineering products you might want to consider:
>
> Printers that have an easy and reliable source of filament in Australia (if it is in a cartridge for that a particular model and if the printer goes out of production, as they are doing, you are stuck with a printer that is difficult to get filament for).
>
> You need at least 100micron resolution for quality work.
>
> Don't rely on running it on a network while printing (especially long prints, you know how reliable school networks are) it is a real pain when you do a 4Hr print and you only have a few minutes left, and the network drops out.
>
> Size of print area dictates the size of your end product.
>
>> From what I have read and seen the UP BOX seems ideal but costs about $3200. I have had no working experience with them. Until I see the UP BOX working I am leaning towards them.
>
> Had some experience with a Cube 3 great quality work worked really well, good price $1600, got excited, went looking for them, found out information from suppliers and the Internet that they are more than likely to be discontinued soon if not already and the filament cartridges are only peculiar to that make and model.
>
> I have had information from an engineer who works in a large company using the ultimaker , they have a lot of down time with them and they may not be suitable for students enthusiasm.
>
> Don't know it this is any assistance, good luck.
>
> Cheers George
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 22 Feb 2016, at 10:20 AM, Powter, Aaron D <powter.aaron.d at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:powter.aaron.d at edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
>
> Hi Kenneth,
>
> Aaron here from Harvester Technical College.
>
> We are currently using two UP3D printers which we purchased through Tony P from Intellecta. They've worked well with little to none issues.
>
> I am currently looking at purchasing an additional printer and this would be an Ultimaker 3D printer.
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I heard a rumour that the DET may soon require extraction or filters for 3D printers soon to minimise ABS and other plastic fumes.
>
> Regards Aaron
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 22 Feb 2016, at 10:09 AM, Bell, Kenneth C <bell.kenneth.c at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:bell.kenneth.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
>
> Hello fellow subscribers to the Systems Engineering edulist.
>
> The Parents Association just gave us a grant of $2500 to purchase a 3D printer.
>
> I would like to know from people who have a 3D printer:
>
> What they are using?
> Roughly how much it cost?
> Are they happy with it.
>
>
> You can either reply using this mailing list or email me directly at:
>
> <image001.png>
>
> Hoping that members of this mailing list can give me some feedback on which 3D printer to buy.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ken Bell
> Mortlake College
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe Systems and Engineering Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/systemsengindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and DATTA Vic - Design and Technology Teachers' Association of Victoria
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe Systems and Engineering Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/systemsengindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and DATTA Vic - Design and Technology Teachers' Association of Victoria
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:30:39 +0000
> From: "Powell, Warren S" <powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] What 3D
> printer are you using?
> To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <1E2FD353B634644B9515E745DFA2E1A494FA57AF at EDUMBX10.education.vic.gov.au>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Ken,
> We have just ordered the Ultimaker 2. It has a heated bed and I did a bit of research and this had a good reputation.
> It is out of your price range but it might be worth asking you school to add in a bit more. You will need a CAD program for designing or check out thingiverse.com for designs.
> I'm fairly new to it but there is a lot of teachers who have a great deal of experience that you can tap into.
> I've added the contact details for you if you want to go down the Ultimaker path.
>
> [IMAGINABLES]
>
> Kae Woei Lim
> Imaginables Pty Ltd
> 10/50 Market Street, Melbourne 3000
> E: kaewoei at imaginables.com.au<mailto:kaewoei at imaginables.com.au>
> P: +61 (0) 4 1511 9481<tel:+61%20(0)%204%201511%209481>
> I: www.imaginables.com.au<http://www.imaginables.com.au/>
> [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png]<http://www.facebook.com/Imaginables3D> [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] <http://twitter.com/imaginables3d>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Warren Powell
> Copperfield College
> Delahey Campus
> Ph: 03 9307 5555
> Fax: 03 9307 5444
> [Description: Copperfield]
>
> No trees were killed in sending this email, but a lot of electrons had been inconvenienced.
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Bell, Kenneth C
> Sent: Monday, 22 February 2016 10:08 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] What 3D printer are you using?
>
> Hello fellow subscribers to the Systems Engineering edulist.
>
> The Parents Association just gave us a grant of $2500 to purchase a 3D printer.
>
> I would like to know from people who have a 3D printer:
>
> What they are using?
> Roughly how much it cost?
> Are they happy with it.
>
>
> You can either reply using this mailing list or email me directly at:
>
> [cid:image003.png at 01D16D64.6BC89640]
>
> Hoping that members of this mailing list can give me some feedback on which 3D printer to buy.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ken Bell
> Mortlake College
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
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