[Year 12 SofDev] Drop in IT Applied Computing numbers

Thu Nov 18 05:41:06 UTC 2021

Hi

It seems my student testimonial did not come through as it was a screen shot.
Here is a testimonial again from one of our former students ( RTTF is our previous name as Ringwood Trade Training Facility now known as Ringwood Training ) :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Kevork

I'm not sure if you remember me but I did my CCNA at Rttf 2015-2016 and then CCNA Security with you in 2017.

I thought I would just let you know how well doing this study has benefited my career path.

In early 2018 I started work at Vocus Communications as a Unified Comms Engineer. This was providing support to our wholesale VoIP resellers through our brands IPTel , Engin and VHV.

 After doing this role for 1.5 years I have since recently been presented with a new role within the same company as a voice Operation Command Center Engineer ( aka NOC voice Engineer )

The skills , certifications and knowledge I gained from RTTF have enabled me to attain a truly amazing career path I never thought I could have achieved at my current age. It was probably one of the best choices I have ever made to take on CCNA at rttf.

I am now working for an amazing company learning so much and delveloping my skills even further. I am also financially free and looking to purchase my first house.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kind Regards

Kevork

________________________________
From: Kevork Krozian <kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au>
Sent: Thursday, 18 November 2021 4:27 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Drop in IT Applied Computing numbers

Hi Vic

      I know you have had amazing success with your eCommerce offerings at year 10 over the years and that is a credit to you.
     I expect this has fed into VCE Applied Computing. Thank you for sharing all your insights and content.

      It does seem to me that we may be conflating several aims in our quest to make IT, DigiTech, Cybersecurity ....  cool, attractive and desirable.
Does a Yr 7, 8, 9 student make a subject choice based on whether:
 1.  a job ( well paying ) is available in that study or
 2.  they will be challenged or
 3.  they will be with their friends or
 4. if they will have "fun" or
 5. play games or
 6. use it as a taster for potential VCE subject selection ?

Does a Yr 10, 11, 12 student make a subject choice based on these criteria ?
Why don't we ask them ?

As an aside, HESS Algorithmics is not for the faint of heart.  There are not many more than around 100 students statewide who venture into this study per year. The content is from any one or more of 1st, 2nd and 3rd year Algorithmics course content at university level. It is the only IT study that is scaled up - significantly - for good reason.
The concentration of the majority of students nowadays is via Distance Education as not too many schools can sustain sufficient numbers to run it each year.
It is my view that Monash and Melbourne Universities designed the course to recruit students for tertiary pathways into Algorithmics/Comp Sci at their respective departments.
Therefore, it is not for the mainstream.

I have seen students go onto University and after completing a degree in IT start employment as a Level 1 helpdesk employee.
Why not cut out the "middle man" and just go for that job after Yr 12.
We need to keep in mind that no matter how much and what type of IT students study the end goal is to secure employment.

Here is a testimonial from one of our former students who did just that ( RTTF is our previous name as Ringwood Trade Training Facility now known as Ringwood Training ) :
[cid:981ac3b0-6d95-41b8-9075-43417b25d1b0]
  As can be seen he was ready to purchase his first house at age 21.
Not everyone will do CCNA Routing and Switching and CCNA Security , however we need to decide what our selling point is when we seek to bring students into IT courses.

 Perhaps schools with the growth in IT can share their strategies.

Speak soon
Kevork

________________________________
From: sofdev <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> on behalf of Victoria Farrell <farrellv at stkevins.vic.edu.au>
Sent: Thursday, 18 November 2021 12:21 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Drop in IT Appliced Computing numbers

Hi Kevork,

We stopped running Data Analytics in 2017 due to a lack of student interest. Now our Software Dev classes are dwindling - kept afloat only by allowing top Year 11s access to the 3/4 subject. A lot of negative feedback from Software Development students identifies the limited amount of actual coding in relation to the amount of project management required. The addition of the Development Model has teachers and students scratching their heads given the limited time frame we have for the SAT. I'm hoping to get the HESS subject up and running in 2023. We have found surveying our best coding students, that Algorithmics is the kind of subject they want to do. Despite trying to 'sex-up' Data Analytics with an eCommerce context (eCommerce has become a very popular Year 10 subject) most are not interested in doing Data Analytics in 3/4 and we can not fill a class.

I would love to hear from schools who have a strong Data Analytics course each year and how they retain students in that subject.

Kind regards,
Vic

 [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1CX_C7cxq-6LI02k6lCI143-i0KPC5nHv&revid=0B4CjWh8BUhIbdG41cDdhQ2paOVBVa2oxdHZzRmRRTGdKR1c0PQ]

Victoria Farrell
Head of Technology Department

St Kevin's College
P 03 9832 4980

E farrellv at stkevins.vic.edu.au<mailto:farrellv at stkevins.vic.edu.au>

vicfarrell.com.au<https://www.vicfarrell.com.au/>
Computer Club<https://www.skc3.club/>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 at 12:03, Kevork Krozian <kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au<mailto:kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
Hi Folks

  Sorry for the cross post . Please ignore if you have seen this already in the Data Analytics forum.
I thought the story below might be of interest to our SofDev subscribers.

Happy to discuss these options and pathways further for anyone interested.

Kind Regards
Kevork

________________________________
From: Kevork Krozian <kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au<mailto:kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au>>
Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2021 5:45 PM
To: Edulist 12DA <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Subject: Re: [Informatics] informatics Digest, Vol 70, Issue 7

Hi Folks

   Shrinking VCE Applied Computing numbers is a sad reality for most schools.

Compare that with our mid 1990s heyday when VCE Processing and Management was the third highest enrolment of any VCE study ( happy to be corrected if I am not 100% correct here ).
Much effort has been expended in the last decade trying to revive our studies but sadly we haven't found a cure yet.

At VCE Unit 3-4 we offer Data Analytics, Software Development, HESS Algorithmics, VET IT Certificate II, VET IT Certificate III , VET Cisco.
VET Cisco counts as two Unit 3-4 credits ( one per year ) and Algorithmics can fast track students in tertiary IT and Computer Science courses.
Quite the feast for the IT lover, spoilt for choice, yet we are undoubtedly shrinking overall.
I have taught five out of six and been an examiner on the sixth. Very rewarding.

Is there any other field that offers six options at VCE Units 3-4 or VCAL ?

At Ringwood Training we have managed to help students who would otherwise miss out in their home school through the provision of three VET in Schools courses:

 1. VET Certificate III in IT ( Networking and Cybersecurity ) - can be a scored or a non-scored study
 2. VET Certificate III in IT ( Multimedia and Gaming)  - can be a scored or a non-scored study
 3. VET Cisco CCNA ( Cisco Certified Network Associate )  - only non-scored with a 10% ATAR bonus contribution per year of Cisco.

We tend to have up to 120 students from almost 50 schools in these courses across two year levels of VCE/VET/VCAL.
Without this aggregation I don't know that any one school would find these courses viable sad to say.

Students continue beyond Yr 12 to post school pathways (see attached ) which we often combine with employment usually on a part time basis with our industry contacts.

I haven't solved your local problems Litsa and Xin, however if the alternative is these students miss out totally,
getting them to a different location will be the smaller of two evils.

Kindest Regards

Kevork Krozian
IT Pathways Manager
Ringwood Training
Tel 0419 356 034

________________________________

From: Roland Gesthuizen <rgesthuizen at gmail.com<mailto:rgesthuizen at gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2021 5:19 PM
To: Edulist 12DA <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Cc: Kevork Krozian <kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au<mailto:kkrozian at rt.vic.edu.au>>
Subject: Re: [Informatics] informatics Digest, Vol 70, Issue 7

G’day Litsa, i am curious if any institutions are running a distance education version of VET IT. Just curious.

Kevork does this with a team at Ringwood SC. I have met some of his students and they do some great work.

For others following this thread, check out in the other email that I shared what we do at VSV to support teaching AC, DA and SD for VCE students.

Regards Roland
--
Roland GESTHUIZEN
http://about.me/rgesthuizen

On 17 Nov 2021, at 2:15 pm, Litsa Tzelepis <htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au<mailto:htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au>> wrote:

Oh wow - we have had this in the past but cancelled the VET IT course - although I think it may suit some of our students who may not wanted to take on the VCE courses.

We have a class of 4 and 7 next year (11 & 12 respectively).

Thank-you for your reply,
Litsa :-)

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:01 PM Chen, Xin <xchen at mazenod.vic.edu.au<mailto:xchen at mazenod.vic.edu.au>> wrote:

Hi Litsa,

Yes, this is happening. My school is even worse—Applied Computing is replaced by VET IT from Y10 to Y12 now. Such a shame!

Thanks

Regards

Xin

Xin Chen

Head of Digital Technologies

xchen at mazenod.vic.edu.au<mailto:xchen at mazenod.vic.edu.au>

Kernot Avenue, Mulgrave VIC 3170

COLLEGE (03) 9560 0911   FAX (03) 9562 2442

mazenod.vic.edu.au<http://mazenod.vic.edu.au/>

<image002.png>

From: informatics <informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au>> On Behalf Of informatics-request at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics-request at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2021 1:08 PM
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Subject: informatics Digest, Vol 70, Issue 7

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Today's Topics:

1. Class sizes 2022 (Litsa Tzelepis)
2. Re: Class sizes 2022 (Roland Gesthuizen)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:08:38 +1100
From: Litsa Tzelepis <htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au<mailto:htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au>>
To: "Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List"
<informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Subject: [Informatics] Class sizes 2022
Message-ID:
<CAODCwv-ANza_pMiBugsUhSX=OvwZtQBpsKe80-GWO-NDbCA73g at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAODCwv-ANza_pMiBugsUhSX=OvwZtQBpsKe80-GWO-NDbCA73g at mail.gmail.com>>
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Hello 🌻

I'm just wondering if schools are seeing a drop in Applied Computing and
Data Analytics numbers for 2022?

We still have 1 class per year level, but they are slightly smaller than
this year.

Just checking - thank-you,
I hope all is well 🍄
Litsa

--

*Litsa Tzelepis*

7-12 Computing Teacher | Senior Cameron Learning Mentor

Mount St. Joseph Girls’ College

133 Maidstone Street, Altona VIC 3018

t 03 8398 2000

www.msj.vic.edu.au<http://www.msj.vic.edu.au/>

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:39:11 +1100
From: Roland Gesthuizen <rgesthuizen at gmail.com<mailto:rgesthuizen at gmail.com>>
To: Edulist 12DA <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Subject: Re: [Informatics] Class sizes 2022
Message-ID: <E16D2C1F-5B6D-49C1-A792-C95A2EFDD1E9 at gmail.com<mailto:E16D2C1F-5B6D-49C1-A792-C95A2EFDD1E9 at gmail.com>>
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Final enrolment numbers in AC, DA or SD can vary widely from school to school across different years. It’s complex for a range of reasons. Many years ago I discovered that it mattered how computing was promoted in our school (7-10), how it was perceived by parents even in the junior year levels (events like Grok challenges or computing clubs) and even, what it was blocked against in the VCE timetable.

Regards Roland
--
Roland GESTHUIZEN
http://about.me/rgesthuizen

> On 17 Nov 2021, at 1:08 pm, Litsa Tzelepis <htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au<mailto:htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
>
> Hello 🌻
>
> I'm just wondering if schools are seeing a drop in Applied Computing and Data Analytics numbers for 2022?
>
> We still have 1 class per year level, but they are slightly smaller than this year.
>
> Just checking - thank-you,
> I hope all is well 🍄
> Litsa
>
> --
> Litsa Tzelepis
> 7-12 Computing Teacher | Senior Cameron Learning Mentor
>
> Mount St. Joseph Girls’ College
> 133 Maidstone Street, Altona VIC 3018
> t 03 8398 2000
> www.msj.vic.edu.au<http://www.msj.vic.edu.au/> <http://www.msj.vic.edu.au/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/MSJGirlsCollege/> <https://www.instagram.com/msjgirlscollege/> <https://twitter.com/MSJGirlsCollege>
>
> <https://www.msj.vic.edu.au/>
>
> This Email and any attachments may be confidential and, if you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information in this email. If received in error, please notify the sender and Mount St. Joseph Girls' College immediately and delete the Email and all copies. Mount St. Joseph Girls' College does not guarantee that this email is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this Email are not necessarily those of Mount St. Joseph Girls' College. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Litsa Tzelepis
7-12 Computing Teacher | Senior Cameron Learning Mentor

Mount St. Joseph Girls’ College
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t 03 8398 2000
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