[Year 12 SofDev] SD VITTA exam 2, multichoice #1
Kevork Krozian
kevork at edulists.com.au
Sat Oct 13 20:29:31 EST 2007
Hi Robert,
Sorry about the pascal/java/C mix up re the for loop syntax ( he says
blushing ! ) and thanks for the correction.
I dug up my old pascal book from 1980 to confirm .....
> Also also, MS BASIC (and VB) is the only language I've come across that
> allows the keyword WHILE (and UNTIL I think) to be used at the top or
> bottom
> of a loop
I take it you mean the only language other than Pascal here ...?
You make the more important point about correct algorithmic representaion.
Perhaps we need a decision from the VCAA regarding this just like we do with
other subjects.
The same goes for certain representations that are software specific such as
data types ( eg. MS Access ), or Project Management ( MS Project ) as well
as DFD representation where Yourdon/DeMarco style is quite common but not
the only one found in books.
Take Care
Kevork Krozian
Edulists Creator and Administrator
www.edulists.com.au
kevork at edulists.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timmer-Arends" <timmer at melbpc.org.au>
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] SD VITTA exam 2, multichoice #1
> Hello Kevork and Mark
>
> Pascals FOR loop syntax is:
> FOR i:=1 TO MaxWords DO
> BEGIN
> WordList[i].Word:='';
> WordList[i].Freq:=0;
> END;
>
> And the CASE statement in C executes all statements following the first
> match - and therefore I imagine all C-like languages do. Hence the need
> for
> a 'break' statement if you don't want that to
> happen. BASIC does not do this.
>
> Also, I'm not sure, but, unlike C, the FOR..NEXT in BASIC may actually be
> a
> POST test with the loop instructions being executed once even if the
> termination number is less than the start number.
>
> Also also, MS BASIC (and VB) is the only language I've come across that
> allows the keyword WHILE (and UNTIL I think) to be used at the top or
> bottom
> of a loop.
>
> All of this raises the interesting question of how one should represent an
> 'algorithm' as opposed to a 'program'. Once upon a time Pascal syntax was
> popular for this and then C. I suppose if we know that that is the
> language being used to represent any given algorithm then there should be
> no diificulty interpreting the action of a given construct. But if we
> don't know the language then an algorithm is open to interpretation.
>
> De Marco and other advocated the use of 'structured English' - a language
> independent tool. Perhaps we should be using this, or a diagrammitc
> approach?
>
> Regards
> Robert T-A
> Brighton SC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevork Krozian" <Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] SD VITTA exam 2, multichoice #1
>
>
> Hi ,
>
> Pascal from memory had the
>
> 1. Pre test in the form of while ( condition is true ) do begin
> ......end
> 2. Post test in the form of repeat ...... until ( condition is
> true )
> 3. For loop which has a pre test - for ( count =1; count <=10; count =
> count + 1) begin.............end
>
> I last taught pascal in 1996 ......
>
> Kevork
>
>
>>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 12/10/2007 1:41 pm >>>
> I just did it in VB6, but the syntax requires the LOOP keyword as well...
>
> A=3
> DO
> msgbox A
> A=A-1
> LOOP WHILE A>0
>
> I haven't touched FORTRAN for 30 years, so it's a bit hard to remember,
> however I admit that after a quick Google, I couldn't find a DO..WHILE
> example with a post-test.
>
> Frank Van Den Boom wrote:
>> I could be wrong but, I don't think Pascal or VB support a while
>> statement in which the test is at the end of the loop. I would also be
>> doubtful about Fortran77 i.e.
>>
>> Do
>> ..
>> ..
>> While count < 10
>>
>> I can't make this work in VB.NET.
>> Do you have a short procedure that demonstrates this working in VB?
>> To be honest, I still wonder if we are talking on the same wavelength
>> here?
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2007 1:14 PM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] SD VITTA exam 2, multichoice #1
>>
>> QBasic or Visual Basic
>> ActionScript
>> C or C++
>> Java
>> JavaScript
>> REALbasic
>> FORTRAN 77
>> Pascal
>> PHP
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_while_loop
>>
>> Frank Van Den Boom wrote:
>>> While I have only used about 5 different languages in my programming
>>> past, I have not seen an implementation of While which tests at bottom
>>
>>> of loop. Are there languages that offer this?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2007 12:53 PM
>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] SD VITTA exam 2, multichoice #1
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of a different DO..WHILE syntax as in...
>>>
>>> DO
>>> ...
>>> WHILE <condition>
>>>
>>> which means it always loops at least once.
>>>
>>> And I interpret the dots in "DO..WHILE" expressions to mean "loop
>>> contents go here" so the DO is at the top and the WHILE is in fact at
>>> the bottom.
>>>
>>> As in the classical FOR..NEXT, the FOR is at the top, the NEXT at the
>>> end.
>>>
>>> Frank Van Den Boom wrote:
>>>> Not sure if I clearly understand why you think Do..While tests at the
>>
>>>> bottom of the loop.
>>>> When option A states it as "Do..While", it is not meant to imply that
>>
>>>> the "Do" bit is at the top and the "While" bit at the bottom - both
>>>> of
>>>> these bits are in the statement at the top of the loop. Eg. As well
>>>> as
>>>> the old While/Wend, VB also offers the following
>>>>
>>>> Do While Count < 10
>>>> ..
>>>> ..
>>>> Loop
>>>>
>>>> In Pascal, it was done something like:
>>>> While Count < 10
>>>> Begin
>>>> ..
>>>> ..
>>>> End
>>>>
>>>> I remember reading years ago, that some classic programmers would
>>>> always use a while loop in place of a repeat loop as a matter of
>>>> principle to cover the possibility that you don't want the loop
>>> entered at all.
>>>> Frank
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2007 11:59 AM
>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] SD VITTA exam 2, multichoice #1
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious what others think...
>>>>
>>>> "Testing at the 'top of the loop' is performed by which syntax in
>>>> pseudo-code?
>>>>
>>>> A. Do..While
>>>> B. Do..Until
>>>> C. For..Next
>>>> D. EOF"
>>>>
>>>> The suggested answer given is A, with the explanation that 'Do..Until
>>
>>>> is often referred to as testing at the bottom of the loop...'
>>>>
>>>> But surely both do..while and do..until both test at the bottom of
>>>> the
>>>> loop.
>>>>
>>>> A While..Wend, on the other hand, tests at the top.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 95789253
> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
> buy a new bomber.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> VITTA
> Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> VITTA
> Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
More information about the sofdev
mailing list