[Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 4 2011: RDBMS Part 2 or Spreadsheets

Thu Nov 11 16:47:10 EST 2010

At RMIT we will also be doing both spreadsheets and databases.  From our perspective, our students often have no or very little knowledge of spreadsheets and no knowledge of databases.

As Mark has found, our students in each year of the previous course have disliked, no hated, no detested databases.  We have run the database SAC for the first SAC to get the hard work out of the way before they start SACs in other subjects - then it's more or less downhill the rest of the way.

While most of the students have no, or little skill, in using spreadsheets, doing U4O1 with spreadsheets is more of a breeze and the students feel more comfortable and enthusiastic about the subject.  They also like it because they can make mistakes that don't come round to bite them on the b#@&* later on.

Each year we have reflected on the running of the SACs and the unanimous decision from the students is that we do do it the "right" way.

Because of the social, cultural, economic and educational background of many of our students, our attrition rate is high - it would be even higher if I were to run two databases.

Regards
Geoff Moss
RMIT
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark KELLY 
  To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
  Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 3:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 4 2011: RDBMS Part 2 or Spreadsheets

  Hi all. 

  Spreadsheets and databases have a lot of common content, to the point of having identical formulas at times. 

  I've just finished writing a couple of practice exams for next year, and a question that could be answered with either spreadsheet or database knowledge was easier than I thought it would be to write.

  I'll be doing spreadsheets and databases as well as everyone else seems to be. While it's true that after skilling up for U3O2 it's not hard to learn a few more skills for databases again in U4O1, I think it's more of an issue of kids' attitudes.  

  They dislike databases; really dislike databases. They really like spreadsheets. Their marks this year in my class confirm that they put far less energy and care into the database task.  

  Many of them felt down after U3O1.  Switching to Excel for U4O1 was a clean slate for them mentally and they tackled it with renewed vigour. They really pulled out all the stops for Excel and lifted their marks considerably.  

  The prospect of doing two depressing database tasks in a row would not make them happy munchkins next year.  

  Most kids have had quite a bit of Excel experience upon entry to ITA, so training is not a big hurdle.  And, as I mentioned above, the similarities of the SS/dB content makes the transition to spreadsheets pretty easy, leveraging existing dB skills.

  Sorry for rambling.  Just finished marking year 11 IT exams and time now seems plentiful  ;-)

  Regards
  Mark

  On 11 November 2010 14:37, Christophersen, Paula P <christophersen.paula.p at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:

    Dear Paul and colleagues

    In the examinations, two possible scenarios will exist regarding questions about spreadsheets and RDBMS. These are:

    ·          Questions focusing exclusively on RDBMS as stipulated in Unit 3, as all students will have studied this. The designated software functions for this tool are stated in the July 2010 VCE Bulletin. This means that multiple choice questions and short and extended-type questions can be asked on RDBMS at the unit 3 level.

    ·          Questions that allow students to answer from either a spreadsheet or RDBMS perspective. In this instance questions must relate to the KK and KS of Unit 4, area of study 1. Typically in this situation there could be a general question to which students indicate whether they are going to respond from a spreadsheet of a RDBMS perspective OR there will be a Part a. and a Part b. and students select one of them. The software functions for SS and the functions for Unit 4 of RDBMS are both listed in the July 2010 Bulletin. If a RDBMS is being studied in both Units 3 and 4, then teachers must be aware of the different software expectations in each unit.

    No 'standalone' spreadsheet questions can be asked – as it is in accordance with the choice aspect of Area of Study 1, Unit 4. 

    In Term 1 next year, a series of sample questions will be posted on the VCAA website which will illustrate these different scenarios.

    Regards

    Paula

    Paula Christophersen

    ICT Curriculum Manager

    VCAA

    41 St Andrews Place

    EAST MELBOURNE 3002

    (03) 9651 4378

    -----Original Message-----
    From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Paul Golub
    Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 1:47 PM
    To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List

    Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 4 2011: RDBMS Part 2 or Spreadsheets

    I was thinking of doing both as well. That way they can learn spreadhseets as well.

    Lets say I didn't do spreadsheets, both were databases. What happens in the exam? Can they ask spreadsheets questions?

    Paul Golub

    Santa Maria College

    50 Separation Street

    Northcote 3070

    Ph: 9488 1674

    -----Original message-----

    From: "Litsa Tzelepis" htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au

    Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:28:06 +1100

    To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List" itapps at edulists.com.au

    Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 4 2011: RDBMS Part 2 or Spreadsheets

    I agree - I'll be doing the same, besides its a good balance.

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Elliot, Mitchell E 

      To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 

      Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 10:14 AM

      Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 4 2011: RDBMS Part 2 or Spreadsheets

      I was thinking of doing the same, Database unit 3 and spreadsheets unit 4 mostly in case they can put both on the exam.

      Mitch Elliot | Buckley Park College | Cooper St, Essendon 3040 | (03) 9331 9999 | elliot.mitchell.e at edumail.vic.gov.au

      From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Jackson Bates

      Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 9:59 AM

      To: 'itapps at edulists.com.au'

      Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 4 2011: RDBMS Part 2 or Spreadsheets

      Hi All,

      Just out of curiosity, what are you all doing for unit 4: Databases or spreadsheets? And what is your rationale for this?

      --

      A reminder from VCAA about the functions to be demonstrated in both:

      (taken from http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/correspondence/bulletins/2010/July/vce_study.html#2)

      Relational database management system 

      The following functions apply to Unit 3:

      .create tables

      .create relationships between tables

      .use a range of data types

      .electronic validation

      .create, edit and use queries

      .use of calculated fields

      .sort records or index on different fields.

      If students use a relational database management system in Unit 4, the following additional functions apply:

      .import/export of data

      .format data for display

      .create and edit a range of forms, including different data types and controls

      .create and edit a range of formatted reports.

      Spreadsheets 

      .conditional formatting

      .formulae including simple functions (SUM, average, maximum, minimum, count), conditional statements and lookup tables

      .cell protection

      .graphs

      .insert notes/comments

      .macros

      .relative and absolute cell references

      .naming a range

      .electronic validation

      .sheet referencing

      .formatting/layout

      --

      FWIW I'll probably run with spreadsheets, just for the sake of building wider usable skills, but I'm open to ideas.

      On a side note, I assume only the database knowledge from unit 3 can be on the exam, since there is no way for the exam to differentiate between those students that have done Databases Unit 4 or Spreadsheets. Does my thinking seem sound on that?

      Regards,

      Jackson Bates

      VCE IT Applications

      Waverley Christian College

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