[Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

[Keith Richardson]

Mark - don't be so hard on yourself "complete" is too extreme a
descriptive, find one that is more socially acceptable and less subject
to negative interpretation.
Keith



On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:01:54 +1000, "Mark Scott"
<msc at staff.luther.vic.edu.au> said:
> Just read this three times and still don't understand
> 
>  
> 
> Do you agree with me or am I a complete idiot?
> 
>  
> 
> Mark Scott
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Stephen Digby
> Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2006 8:14 AM
> To: 'Year 12 Information Technology Processing and
> ManagementTeachers'Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
>  
> 
> - the community is voting with its feet for privatized (user pays)
> education  - Shift happens. You can't deny it or legislate against it.
> Live with it. Embrace it.
> 
> - the community and the national government want student progress
> reports expressed as a single index (A-F) in relation to objective
> benchmarks - Shift happens. You can't deny it or legislate against it.
> Live with it. Embrace it.
> 
> - most school communities want their schools to exclude students who
> damage the opportunity or safety of other students.  Schools who don't
> do this (esp. government schools) are not attractive to parents with
> choices - Shift happens. You can't deny it or legislate against it. Live
> with it. Embrace it.
> 
>  
> 
> - I could go on......
> 
>  
> 
> Most educators are very selective about embracing "change".  
> The changes that they embrace are usually those that fit their personal
> values and their career aspirations.
> 
> The current line management of educational structures has created an
> atmosphere where to "talk the talk" is essential to getting promotion.
> 
> Thus, the hegemony of ideas from the "authorities' has come to mean the
> employer.
> 
>  
> 
> What I am trying to say is that there is more money, and therefore more
> "snake oil", in IT than most areas of the curriculum.  To retain some
> intellectual credibility and autonomy, it is wise to ensure that the
> benefits of "change" are evaluated in an objective sense rather than
> accepted as articles of faith in the vision of the current politician.
> 
>  
> 
> ========================================================================
> ==============
> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager 
> mailto:admin at cheltsec.vic.edu.au  
> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> <http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au/>  Ph: 613 955 55 955  Fx: 9555 8617
> ========================================================================
> ==============
> 
> 
> 
> My friend Winnie is a procrastinator. He didn't get his birthmark until
> he was eight years old.- Steven Wright 
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Mark Scott
> Sent: 06 September 2006 08:47 PM
> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
> Shift happens
> 
>  
> 
> You can't deny it or legislate against it.
> 
>  
> 
> Live with it.
> 
>  
> 
> Embrace it.
> 
>  
> 
> Mark Scott
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
> Sent: Wed 6/09/2006 8:03 PM
> To: 'Year 12 Information Technology Processing and
> ManagementTeachers'Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
> Hate to always be the voice of reason, but I am firmly against "change".
> I
> am only in favor of "improvement".  The problem with many changes that
> are
> proposed is that the case for them as improvements is not made.
> Recalcitrant is a good word as it refers to the refusal to accept
> authority.
> It is in the "unreason"able exercise of authority that recalcitrant
> behavior
> can be a virtue - think of many issues not doubt dear to many hearts -
> corporal punishment, enforced numerical grading, enforced letter grades,
> enforced ranking reports, etc etc...   Would YOU be recalcitrant ?
> 
> Please let's focus on rational debate about what are improvement options
> and
> why they ARE improvements, rather than on an "authority" that tells us
> that
> some changed classroom technology or layout is an improvement.
> 
> ========================================================================
> ====
> ==========
> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> mailto:admin at cheltsec.vic.edu.au 
> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au Ph: 613 955 55 955
> Fx:
> 9555 8617
> ========================================================================
> ====
> ==========
> 
> 
> All that glisters is not gold.
> Shakespeare: From The Merchant of Venice (II, vii) Portia is a
> beautiful,
> virtuous, wealthy woman who is being wooed by numerous suitors. She is
> not
> free to decide on her own whom she will marry because her late father
> ...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On
> Behalf Of Bell, Cameron P
> Sent: 06 September 2006 12:44 PM
> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'MailingList
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
> Depends on the culture of the school too.
> I think wholesale systematic change is hardest for schools to deal with.
> I am sure we have all had dealings with some teachers that have the
> "this is
> the way we have always done it" attitude and fight change. They often
> have
> the loudest voice in meetings and have the "fear-factor" in their
> favour.
> Other schools have leadership that encourages change and - dare I say it
> -
> "taking risks". A culture like this can help reduce the effect of the
> nay-sayers and will provide the resources to facilitate change.
> 
> I have also had a few teachers close to retirement refusing point blank
> to
> learn any new systems or procedures. I have been told "I am retiring
> next
> year, I am not going to worry about learning something new now." On the
> opposite side, you have those who just want to keep learning -
> regardless of
> their age or circumstances. I really admire that, as that is exactly the
> attitude I would want to instill in the students - life-long, ongoing
> learning.
> 
> So that change can happen, how do you encourage "recalcitrant" (for want
> of
> a better word) teachers to accept that we must constantly change and
> adapt
> to new circumstances so that it is not seen as a burden, but an
> opportunity?
> Would love any additional strategies people can suggest.
> 
> Cameron
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Murray O.
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:17 AM
> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'MailingList
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
> Mark
> I disagree with you.
> Based on my experience, I think teachers are highly adaptable to change
> be
> planned or unplanned. That being said I too get frustrated at trying to
> facilitate change in schools.
> 
> Can you tell of other professions or groups of adults that change
> quickly?
> 
> Regards,
> Oliver Murray
> Web Developer
> Westbourne Grammar School
> www.westbournegrammar.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Mark Scott
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 10:30 AM
> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'MailingList
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
> We are talking teachers.
> 
> This is a species renown for not changing quickly.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of jturner
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 10:11 AM
> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> 
> The big mistake people continue to make is seeing technology as the
> catalyst
> for sustainable change in education when it should be people.
> Technology is invaluable whatever its peculiarities but learner centered
> means people at the center.
> John
> 
> On 05/09/2006, at 3:41 PM, Mark Scott wrote:
> 
> > I have said it before and no doubt I will say it again.
> >
> > The biggest advantage in introducing student owned laptops into a
> > school is that it can be used as a catalyst for change.
> >
> > You can start to talk about learner centred classrooms instead of
> > teacher centred ones.
> >
> > ... and of course this is not the only strategy you try, just one of
> > several.
> >
> > Mark Scott
> > Luther College
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Michael Walker
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 3:06 PM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> >>>> Laurie Savage<sav at pvgc.vic.edu.au> 09/05/06 12:07pm >>>
> >>> And now we have a generation of people who cannot do the simplest
> > calculation in their head.
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> >>>> Mark Scott wrote:
> >> They said the same thing about calculators back in the early
> > seventies.
> >
> > Ah generalisations, you've got to love them... 8^)
> >
> > I would argue that with the use of calculators, you don't need to do
> > the simplest calculation in your head. However, it requires a
> > different skill set to check that your calculator is giving you an
> > accurate answer rather than no skill set at all, hence the higher
> > emphasis on estimation that occurs in teaching maths now than when I
> > was at school. Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis...
> >
> > I would also argue that those kids I know of who have trouble
> > performing the simplest calculation aren't all that flash on using the
> > calculator either. I would suggest that a greater cause is lack of
> > interest for whatever reason from boring teaching methods in previous
> > years showing the kids how irrelevant maths is to lack of support at
> > home for doing homework and school in general. Now there's a can of
> > worms or three...
> >
> > Although I don't think laptops are a cure for all ills, I suspect that
> > under some circumstances they can be a useful tool in the hands of the
> > right practitioner, and in others are a complete waste of time when
> the
> > circumstances of the school and students are taken into account. To
> > give some examples, I am sure that in some laptop schools, the laptops
> > are an expensive pseudo notebook / electronic textbook whose primary
> advantage
> > is larger capacity, neater handwriting (typing vs scribble) and better
> > searchability. Obviously Mark's school is not one of them based on his
> > response. That's not to say schools with poor use of laptops don't
> > exist, and anecdotal evidence would suggest that they do. On the other
> > hand, the same applies to schools who have changed their teaching to
> > make good use of new teaching methods available from every student
> > having the tool and having been taught a proficiency with it.
> >
> > On the other hand, I would suspect that there would be scenarios where
> 
> > a
> > $2000 laptop would be a poor use of family or school resources for the
> > perceived benefits compared to alternatives. Would a struggling
> western
> > suburbs secondary school be able to justify making every student buy a
> > laptop, even on finance? Would alternative approaches such as good use
> > of Moodle with external access be more appropriate in terms of bang
> for
> > buck?
> >
> > I would suggest that neither black nor white are correct and that
> > although there is a place for laptops in schools, it would be silly to
> > try and suggest that it would be desirable for every school in the
> > state and every student in the state to have a laptop and be in a
> > laptop program. Or to suggest that every maths student in the state
> > can't do simple calculations in their head...
> >
> >
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> >
> Dr J Turner
> Head of Information Technology / VCE Coordinator Presbyterian Ladies'
> College BURWOOD Victoria 3125
> 
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Keith Richardson