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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi folks ... we had no SD class this year, but for the last
few years, I've used php. Next year, with a class running, I'm intending
to use python.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The last time I ran multiple languages in one class was
many years ago, and at Year 11 level. I had C, Pascal and VB going, and it
drove me bonkers - switching my brain from debugging one to debugging the other,
and trying to keep the kids from using the syntax from on in the other.
Hard work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>If there any other intending python users out there, I'd be
interested to be in touch ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=996223923-29112007></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Kent
Beveridge<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 30, 2007 10:03 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Year
7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Learning
PERL (or PHP,PYTHON)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=idOWAReplyText32914 dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Hi again list..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Got some feedback from the kids about what
THEY are interested in learning next year for Y10 IT.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>I already was going to increase the
multi-media focus with programming moving up a level(this year they pretty much
met programming for the first time with VB6 and Scratch).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>One student is interested in PERL (and C++
!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question to you guys...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has anyone run IT classes using multiple
languages at the same time given different interests of students. I would like
to give students an opportunity to try what they are interested in and this
might mean multiple languages running in the one classroom at the same
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Perhaps as a short term learning project eg
4-6 weeks or even a term with the focus on just computer languages.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>What do others think? Has/is anyone else
done/doing this? Does it work? Anyone got any lesson plans on this approach they
could share? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>I havent used PHP, PERL, PYTHON but am
willing to give 'em a try! Heck, why not..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>In fear of stating the obvious...the
boys(yep, boys!) want to program to make games..well some of them do..
>From what I've been hearing on this list, it seems mostly the girls who seem to
be doing the programming. If I am right, chalk one up for the male
gender!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>On a timetabling point...My IT subjects all
magically seemed to get 'blocked' with either sport or Outdoor Ed, when the
subject selection lists went out. Is it no wonder that this subject did poorly
when considering its a country town with an emphasis on sports! Ahh well,
we can only do the best we can I guess. Off the record, a few of my students are
rapt with all the different new stuff we tried this year. Its nice to know when
you try to implement new ideas, that some of the kids appreciate your
efforts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=idSignature90769 dir=ltr>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#0000ff><STRONG>Kent
Beveridge</STRONG>,</FONT></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#0000ff>I.T.
co-ordinator</FONT></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#0000ff>St. Brigids
Catholic Sec. College</FONT></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=#0000ff>Horsham</FONT></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">email.. <A
href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</A></FONT></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></SPAN></I> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><STRONG>|<3|\|7 b3\/3r1D93 ?
;-)</STRONG><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Wishes and Eggs, one you
make and one you break! A bit like promises.....</FONT></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 42.55pt"><I><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#800080>“This email
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<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf
of Adrian Janson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Fri 11/30/2007 8:56 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Year 7 -
10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[Yr7-10it] Re buzz words from 22/11....<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Bill and
all,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This debate over the
quality of the keynote and the VITTA conference theme is an interesting one –
and one which I welcome.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Russell,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">>heheh, if I get shouted
down like that on a *discussion* list, why would I want to join a committee for
more of the same? If dissenting opinions are not >only unvalued but
vehemently attacked, what is the point?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please do not get the
impression that you were shouted down – far from it (and this is one of the key
difficulties with email). As representatives of VITTA, we have the right
to a reply to your comments – just as you have the right to make them. I
would like to reiterate that your input is indeed not only welcomed but
encouraged – and you are just the sort of person that would be great to have on
the VITTA committee as you have strong views and a passion for education.
The fact that you felt that the keynote was not relevant to you and was
too reliant on ‘buzz-words’ is a concern to me. Personally I feel that
this is just the sort of keynote that I want to see. One that has vision
and is positive and thought-provoking.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>>I refrained from pursuing this further on the
list because I do respect the hard work done by VITTA - and overall I do think
the conference was great, meaning for me, the workshops. <BR>>However, I do
see a problem with keynotes both in general and with Stephen Heppell's keynote
in particular. I did blog about it instead here:<BR>><A
href="http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.html">http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.html</A><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bill – a point of
order. Not posting to the IT list – but instead posting to your blog and
posting the link to the IT list are exactly the same.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bill – I respect your
opinion a great deal. As an inter-state guest of our conference and a
regular contributor to these lists and the IT community, your input into matters
like this is very welcome – in fact, you would be very welcome to have input
into the organisation of our conference next year.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The setting of a
conference theme is something that is not trivial (nor have you suggested
this). The VITTA committee spent a great deal of time on the conference
theme – one which I was extremely happy with. The Michael Wesch Web2.0
video provided particular inspiration to us (and I know that you do not
necessarily feel the same way about it). Is it important to have a
conference theme? Absolutely yes! Is it important to have a keynote
– and indeed keynote/s in the style presented at our conference? Yes it
is. It is my belief that the function of a keynote is to provide
inspiration, big ideas, promote discussion (and debate – and in this regard – it
has certainly been successful).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The overwhelming
feedback that we have received has been very positive. I am personally
sorry that the keynote or the VITTA conference (excluding the workshops) did not
meet your needs Bill. However, we sought to meet the needs of the many and
to that end we have been very successful. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I would be very happy
to continue this discussion off-list (as I am sure that others are getting sick
of – and apologies for this).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cheers,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Adrian</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><STRONG><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Adrian Janson,
</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><STRONG><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">VITTA
President</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><B><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: navy"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Director of
ICT, </FONT></B></STRONG><BR></SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy">Melbourne</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"> High School</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy">, </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141
Australia.<BR>Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<BR>Fax: 03
9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<BR>E-mail: </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><A
href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</A><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bill Kerr<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, 30 November 2007 8:13
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Year 7 - 10 Information
Technology Teachers' Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Yr7-10it] Re buzz words from
22/11....</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">hi phil,<BR><BR>I refrained from pursuing
this further on the list because I do respect the hard work done by VITTA - and
overall I do think the conference was great, meaning for me, the workshops.
<BR><BR>I accept there was no conscious linking b/w the "revolution" theme
emanating from VITTA and the ALP. I never thought there was. <BR><BR>However, I
do see a problem with keynotes both in general and with Stephen Heppell's
keynote in particular. I did blog about it instead here:<BR><A
href="http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.html">http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.html</A><BR><BR>I
don't mind a theme of revolution - but its hard to deliver on it. IMV web2.0 has
become a new received wisdom. Before the conference it was said that VELS was a
revolution and Adrian in his response linked the theme to Michael Wesch's videos
(which can also be critically analysed - see the above blog) <BR><BR>What to do
instead? I was asked this by Graham Wegner on my blog and I replied as
follows:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 30pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I would have preferred a debate between a web2.0
position and a conflicting position. Any real discussion - something challenging
- would have been preferable to Stephen's nice guy avuncular message. Surprise
me! Some talks have an underlying tension, a coming together of disparate views
or an unresolved tension at the end. Stephen's talk was far too smooth, no
untidy loose ends, no internal struggle. If web2.0 was radical (it's no longer
new) then wouldn't you expect this? So much of the web2.0 material is just bland
goodness. It has become the new received wisdom. This sort of approach would
have also been more congruent with the theme of the conference
("revolution).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Part of the issue with the way Stephen's keynote
worked out in practice was this:<BR><BR>1) an important international expert
arrives from overseas to tell us that local knowledge is the most important
thing <BR>2) We sit in lecture mode hearing that the lecture is no longer
important<BR>3) the limitations of web2.0 apps are not mentioned. There was no
context either historical (computer science) or historical, about all the
knowledge discovered before computers were invented<BR><BR><BR>With the ALP
about to embark on an "education revolution" I think that we need to keep our
skeptical antennae tuned. See also</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/">Revolution
of the Mind </A><BR><BR>Greg Whitby is also skeptical about Labour's education
revolution, pointing out that it's teachers not computer hardware that will be
the decisive factor in change</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/">http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>cheers,<BR>- Bill<BR>-- <BR>Bill
Kerr<BR><A
href="http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/">http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/</A><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Nov 29, 2007 5:00 PM, Phil Callil <<A
href="mailto:P.Callil@xavier.vic.edu.au">P.Callil@xavier.vic.edu.au </A>>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"I agree; the keynote on the day I attended was 99% "bum
fluff" as I like to call it." <BR><BR>My, if that isn't an unnecessarily
provocative and uninformed comment, I'm not sure what is.....<BR><BR>First,
reading Bill's analytical and thoughtful comments about buzz words in political
policies and the like certainly caused me to think about how such words and
cliches are thrown about by both sides of the political spectrum. Regardless,
the investment made by the federal government in education has caused us to fall
behind when compared with many OECD countries. I think that's clear.
Similarly, the government's policies on broadband have done the same,
especially when compared with South Korea, Japan and many European and
Scandinavian countries. <BR><BR>They are buzz words when used by politicians who
are perhaps looking for their 10 second grab to the masses.<BR><BR>But to
suggest that the keynotes (or even one of them) on Monday and Tuesday were of a
similar ilk is an unnecessary and fairly insulting swipe at two people who have
established international and national reputations (respectively) for
their experience and knowledge. Heppell's delivery I thought was
appealing, accessible, eye opening and informative. It represented a lot
of ideas we need to consider when it comes to what we want our schools to look
like over the next 50 years - ideas we need to consider if we are to fashion our
own Australian response to the educational needs of our children <BR><BR>Moyle's
comments I felt were not necessarily eye opening stuff but were based on solid
analysis of field research of schools, industry and teachers. For IT
practitioners at the coalface in schools, maybe they were not necessarily eye
opening but it was good to hear such views being expressed by an academic who
can influence national policy in IT in education. Her ideas on programming
and where it sits in the curriculum and the importance of cross platform open
source apps were very appealing - at least to me anyway. <BR><BR>To suggest that
the keynote on (whatever) the day "99% 'bum fluff' " is unfair,
unnecessary and offensive. VITTA work hard to cater for both the IT
specialists who form the bulk of the membership and teachers who are cross
curriculum. From a subjective and objective point of view, I think this
was done successfully. <BR><BR>So, whatever you do, rather than making comments
like this, be a little bit more proactive and join in the decision making
process at VITTA. Come and join the committee and have a say in the
keynote speaker selection. <BR><BR>Best wishes<BR><BR><BR>Phil Callil<BR>Faculty
Head IT<BR>Xavier College<BR><BR>Vice President
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