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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I take your point about the purist approach
rather than let the market dictate what is good for me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Having said that, it wasn't my intention to knock
down python or scratch - just to show their level of pervasiveness. I know, most
used doesn't mean the best.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I taught Python to my year 11s this year and PHP
with MySQL to my year 12s. Some of my 11s actually managed to get Python to work
with the MySQL backend as well. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At one point in my professional life I REALLY
wanted to make sure my students understood the way a half adder and a full adder
worked with the truth tables, before they wrote a line of code. Yes, they had to
understand how XOR gates worked or else they didn't deserve the luxury of using
software to carry out arithmetic operations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nowadays, I tell them that they are unlikely to
ever worry about how that works in their professional life. Perhaps off on a
tangent, but if we are looking at what is the best programming language for
children to learn in Period 1, and in Period 2 we are teaching students VET IT
and what they need to go out and work in industry next year and the period after
that we are teaching Cisco students how to set up a network in the "real" world
through a simulated or school based problem then you will forgive my oversight
if I stray into what is needed in industry as part of what they are doing. Maybe
I am suffering VET fatigue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In year 11, where students may be taking
programming for the first time ever, the assessment requires that students look
at IT Pathways of their chosen language and problem scenario as it exists in the
market place. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do long for the good old days where I could teach
machine language, then assembly, then Pascal, then a 4GL and insist on the
correct use of data types, structures and avoidance of type mismatches and probe
with a purely inquiry based approach to what is the most educationally suitable
language for students.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sadly, it is a luxury I simply don't have
anymore.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have put on my safety helmet in anticipation of
the upcoming assault on my betrayal of my educational calling........
:))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Take Care</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Kevork Krozian<BR>Edulists Creator and Administrator<BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au">www.edulists.com.au</A><BR><A
href="mailto:kevork@edulists.com.au">kevork@edulists.com.au</A><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billkerr@gmail.com href="mailto:billkerr@gmail.com">Bill Kerr</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=yr7-10it@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:yr7-10it@edulists.com.au">Year 7 - 10 Information Technology
Teachers' Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 17, 2007 3:52
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Yr7-10it] Scratch,
Gamemaker, VB.net, Python,PHP and MySQL - Programming for all levels</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>On 9/17/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Kevork Krozian</B> <<A
href="mailto:Kroset@novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au">Kroset@novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au</A>>
wrote:<BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Check
out <A
href="http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm">http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm</A> for a
"league table" of language popularity.<BR>The order of popularity starting
from the top is Java, C , (Visual) Basic, PHP
.... with python at Number 8. <BR>Scratch is 2new to
be listed it seems - even in the top 50.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>Kevork,<BR>It worries me that you present this league table in the
context of a discussion about the merits of programming languages for
children, without seeing the need for an accompanying argument. <BR><BR>I
point this out not just to be difficult but because I don't agree with the
unstated implication that vocational factors ought to trump educational
factors - surely something else needs to be said when such as table is
presented? <BR><BR>ie. what weight ought to be assigned to the league
table<BR>note their disclaimer: "Observe that the TIOBE index is not about the
<I>best</I> programming language or the language in which <I>most lines of
code</I> have been written."<BR><A
href="http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm">http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm</A><BR><BR>I
would have thought that Harvard University using scratch as an introduction to
their Java programming course ought to count for something
<BR> </DIV></DIV>-- <BR>Bill Kerr<BR><A
href="http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/">http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/</A><BR><A
href="http://www.users.on.net/~billkerr/">http://www.users.on.net/~billkerr/</A><BR>skype:
billkerr2006 _______________________________________________ <BR><A
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