[Yr7-10it] VELS and IT

Thu Jun 8 13:05:38 EST 2006

A good point Paul
Perhaps I should clarify my position. I see a difference between learning
to use computers and learning about them. In the latter group I would
include stuff like the components of computers and how they work. I feel
that the common attitude about students' computer literacy is because most
of them know what buttons to push to create a PowerPoint presentation.
What they don't inherently know is the difference between using effects
because they look good and using them to enhance communication.

Cheers

> Thanks for the comments, Stuart.
>
> I wonder whether, in some of the discussions, our use of language can be a
> problem. On one hand, we have the idea of "if you leave many students (and
> teachers) to their own devices, they are used appallingly" and on the
> other "I suspect for many, they don't need to learn ABOUT computers
> either"  Surely, these statements are mutually exclusive; and, if not, the
> problem is not any intention on my part to make a mountain out of a
> molehill, but in the language that different IT folk use to express
> different ideas.  So, please, clarify; discuss.
>
> But, be that as it may, I would like to draw attention to the commonly
> held idea that students are already fairly computer literate.  Clearly,
> others on this list have challenged this assumption, based on their own
> experiences &/or the circumstances of their school.  But I would like to
> know, even in a "really computer literate" school how do we KNOW this.
>
> In the paper on my wiki, I wrote (in part): The concern which I share in
> this paper is that rather than accepting learners as being "IT savvy" at
> face value and without enquiry, there should be a more earnest effort to
> identify the knowledge that students have about computers and computing.
> That is, to presume that rather than being authoritative, that such
> knowledge may well be robust, idiosyncratic, familiar and pragmatic, but
> unique to the individual learner.
>
> It's possible that I am out of touch with what's going on around the
> traps, but if there are good diagnostic tests or probes (or whatever)
> which demonstrate good conceptual understanding then I'd like to hear
> about them; and if not, I think we should move forward in this direction.
>
> Regards,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> stuw at huntingtower.vic.edu.au
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:05 PM
> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>
> Here is my perspective and views:-
>
> I have the advantage of being at the one school for the last twenty-five
> years and have seen much change and much stay the same. I started teaching
> Maths among other subjects in 1982. The "curriculum" that I was given for
> Maths listed a number of topics including 'Computers'. I developed a
> course using the four Apple IIe s. A few years later I was no longer
> teaching Maths and realised that there was no education about or with
> computers. I have always had the view that Information Technology should
> be taught across the curriculum. I proposed a course to fill what I
> thought would be a temporary gap until more teachers became computer savvy
> and incorporated them in their teaching. Twenty years down the track, I am
> still waiting. Although I have achieved some stunning converts, for the
> majority of teachers ICT means getting students to use a word processor or
> maybe PowerPoint. VELs has made my converts more passionate but has not
> changed what goes in many of the other classrooms!
>  . I suspect that the situation is much the same in many other schools.
>
> Students do not need to learn about to learn about pens and pencils. I
> suspect for many, they don't need to learn ABOUT computers either. They
> are tools to education. Unfortunately if you leave many students (and
> teachers) to their own devices, they are used appallingly. VELS does
> nothing to address this. Computers are an essential tool for life and most
> students need to be taught to use them efficiently. There is no garran tee
> that VELs will do this. We will always need teachers with the skill and
> passion. These teachers will continue to need a dedicated time slot to
> teach a survival guide to ICT. Ideally we can use this slot to service
> other curriculum areas
>
> Cheers
>
> Stuart walkerden
>
>
>
>> I'm going to chip into the various positions which have been postulated.
>>
>> Firstly, I think we are all influenced by our respective backgrounds,
>> and here's mine: my under-grad studies were in computer science; I
>> loved writing compilers.  In education studies, I was inspired by the
>> various possibilities of how to use computers in various subjects.  I
>> spent a good deal of energy in my early years of teaching dashing
>> around, trying to enthuse colleagues to use computers, with mixed
>> sucess.  I was certainly a supporter of the idea of "dismantling" the
>> 'tiny little electives' which I was teaching, and try to roll the
>> computing/ICT into other subjects.
>>
>> I have moderated my stance somewhat in recent years.  Experience has
>> shown that there's a genuine place for teaching "about" the
>> technology, a genuine place for the "computer specialist", and much
>> value in ensuring that there is an core of computing knowledge which
>> we ensure that students encounter through their schooling.  (I am
>> being guarded - the 'balance' in these might vary from school to
>> school).
>>
>> One thing which I don't think us IT-types have fastened onto as much
>> as we should have is the idea of "pedagogical content knowledge"
>> (PCK), which is (according to theorists in the field of teacher's
>> knowledge) the 'special type' of knowledge that teachers develop,
>> which involves how to represent different types of content using
>> different means.  Basically, greater use of computing/ICT in non-ICT
>> areas will primarily be enabled in inhibited by how developed the
>> teacher's PCK is ... the problem is that it is demonstrably true that
>> PCK is jolly hard to foster.  But, ultimately, it is what we need to be
>> doing.
>>
>> On another topic, like Paul Sipkes, I am constantly bemused to
>> encounter the lack of computer literacy or the retention of knowledge.
>> Maybe this becomes an argument in favour of more "core" IT at lower
>> levels.  It may also suggest that we need to teach differently.  One
>> of the things which I've been rolling around in my mind for a few
>> years is the need to teach more conceptually, and less with a skills
>> focus.  That's not to say we shouldn't teach skills, but it describes
>> the entry point.  In fact, I've been wondering about how to apply the
>> "children's science" approach which has profoundly influenced science
>> teaching over the last 20 years to IT
>> and computing.   Some initial thinking about this is to be found on the
>> wiki:  http://pdchandler.wikispaces.com   If we are to really "take
>> things
>> forward" we may need to re-think how we approach the teaching of
>> "foundational" computing concepts and skills.  And if we do that, it
>> is possible that new ways of integrating computing/ICT will become
>> more possible or more valued.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Paul Chandler
>> paul.chandler at yvg.vic.edu.au
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Paul Sijpkes
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:20 PM
>> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>>
>>
>> At my school I teach IT and Multimedia, at year 10 level IT our
>> curriculum
>> covers: networks, the information processing cycle, spreadsheets,
>> visual basic programming, graphics and web design (photoshop and
>> dreamweaver) all in two 40 minute periods per week.  Trying to cover
>> this many subjects in one year in so little time, the students only
>> get the briefest of glimpses of what is possible within most of these
>> areas.  It would be great to have specialist IT classes where we could
>> teach the subjects Don mentioned as well as having ICT integrated into
>> the other curriculum. I believe also we should be teaching basic ICT
>> skills at junior level, some of my students in year 8 still don't
>> understand that using Save As... can create a different file with a
>> different file name.... something that really shocked me.  I've also
>> had graphics and arts teachers complain to me that their students know
>> how to operate a scanner at year 10 and 11 level, something that
>> surely should be taught at junior level.  Note that I'm only speaking on
>> my experience in one school as a new teacher.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Don Morelli
>> Edumail
>> Sent: Tue 6/06/2006 11:15 AM
>> To: 'Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List'
>> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>>
>>
>>
>> My 2c worth on the argument.
>>
>> I have often asked this question about who teaches the ABOUT IT as
>> distinct from using IT as a tool. The answer that I have consistently
>> got is that it is not the intention that classroom teachers from other
>> KLAs teach the ABOUT STUFF (programming, OS, NOS, HARDWARE, ROBOTICS,
>> CONTROL SYTEMS etc) and that this still needs to be taught by
>> specialists.
>> Specialist IT classes should still exist within the curriculum, and
>> must not be allowed to be removed because of any VELS argument about
>> integration of this into existing curriculum. However, these IT
>> classes can now have less of a focus on applications and more on what
>> is mentioned above.
>>
>>
>>
>> I share the frustration and am really worried about the fact that some
>> schools are opting to drop IT classes at 7 to 10. We do need to stand
>> up and make the various administrators aware of the ABOUT IT that
>> seems to have fallen by the wayside, with the emphasis on applications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Morelli
>>
>> Leading Teacher ICT or whatever it is called now.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Paul Sijpkes
>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 9:54 AM
>> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> I've thought a lot about this, the only way it is going to work is if
>> schools invest enough time into PDs (which we would teach) to train
>> their staff in robotics etc...
>>
>> I've seen potential for teaching robotics in science, in particular.
>> In year 8 student study the different types of levers in the body,
>> robotics would be a great way to engage them with this, but the
>> problem is training the teachers to use it.  Programming could be fit
>> into Maths and the Sciences, to model experiments, again this needs
>> support from the schools and training for the teachers.  From my
>> understanding, VELS relegates IT and technology teachers to classroom
>> aides that assist teachers in using the technology.  This may not be a
>> bad thing, the majority of parents and students do not see the need to
>> learn the technical aspects of IT.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the rationale from the planners is that, essentially, it is
>> how we use technology as a tool rather than whether we understand the
>> workings of its innards that is important.  Subjects such as
>> programming may be touched upon in some subjects at pre VCE level but
>> will ultimately be (and to a large extent already is) shifted to the
>> TAFE system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Sijpkes
>>
>> Academic Staff
>>
>> THE KNOX SCHOOL
>>
>> Independent Co-educational International
>>
>> Wantirna South VIC 3152
>>
>> Phone: +61 3 9801 9233
>> Fax: +61 3 9887 1850
>>
>> Website: www.knox.vic.edu.au <http://www.knox.vic.edu.au>
>>
>> CRICOS Provider No: 00151G ABN: 16 095 158 222
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Frank Merlino
>> Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 5:46 PM
>> To: yr7-10it at edulists.com.au
>> Cc: is at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> Maybe someone can share their knowledge about this one with me....
>>
>>
>>
>> In the design of VELS, where did the "planners" think such areas as
>> computer programming, robotics, learning about how computer systems
>> work, etc were going to fit? One would imagine that in this day and
>> age, it would be considered essential learning to know something about
>> how hardware works, how programs work, how robotics is implemented and
>> its basics, etc. Do the "planners" in their wildest dreams think these
>> topics will be covered well in the "disciplines"? What's your opinion?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Merlino
>> Technology (IT and Systems) Co-ordinator Web Site Manager St. Joseph's
>> College
>> 135 Aphrasia St, Newtown
>> Geelong, Victoria, Australia, 3219
>> Phone: 03 52 268100
>>
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