[Technical] RE: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards

[Keith Richardson]

Thank you Neil - we are definitely moving slowly towards a clearer
understanding. Now if everyone can come on board, and also give us their
5 cents worth, we may see clearer and clearer. Good points you have
made!
Keith



On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:23:41 +1000, "Greg Neil"
<greg at stmargarets.vic.edu.au> said:
> I would like to offer a non-teaching perspective on this, as I believe
> that there is a general mis-trust or lack of faith in Information
> Technology. My background is in big 5 consulting and large systems
> implementation. After 15+ years in that environment I am now working
> support in the educational sphere (and enjoying it, I might add). I am
> also married to an English teacher.
> 
> The tech bubble is one factor, as to is Y2K. Having lead large teams in
> preparing Government departments for 'The End of Civilisation As We Know
> It', at a cost of tens of millions of dollars (billions world-wide), only
> to see it pass with little or no impact (thanks to the amount of effort
> and money expended in the lead up, I might add), the general public
> impression was that it was all a beat up to allow large consulting
> companies to charge outrageous fees for work that either wasn't really
> required, or that should not have been required if IT had done the right
> thing 30 years earlier. Couple this very public events with the
> contradiction between the advertising (the computer is just like any
> other appliance) and the truth (instability, usability) and it's no
> wonder people who don't use them a lot are wary of the benefits. If your
> toaster crashed on every second or third piece of toast, you would trow
> it out. Yet many teachers (the public at large, in fact) see computers
> as!
>   inherently unstable and unreliable. OK for an email, but don't rely on
>   it in a crisis. Windows XP is probably the most stable, practical
>   mainstream OS. Well maintained it does not crash often of it's own
>   accord. But so much of the software we install on top of it is not
>   robust, is written in pseudo-platforms such as director, and is cottage
>   industry stuff.
> 
> The final factor I would like to drop in here is probably close to home
> for most of us, and if not done well is a death by a thousand cuts.
> Implementation of IT projects, be they a new administration system or the
> introduction of a new teaching application is where we win or lose
> reputation points. If it all goes smoothly, our reputation goes up 1
> point. If it does not go smoothly, our reputation goes down 5 - 10
> points. This is not education specific, this is IT anywhere. You judge
> the success of a project by the lack of complaint, no the kudos you
> recieve. But in many cases, these implementations are being managed by
> people who are not trained in project management or systems
> implementation, have many other constraints on their time, don't have the
> budget they really require, and have unrealistically tight timeframes. I
> must admit to being impressed by how much is done with so little in the
> education environment, compared to how little is achieved with so much in
> the depar!
>  tments themselves.
> 
> Looking at it from my perspective, two areas could win a great number of
> reputation points back (slowly, but back nontheless). 
> 
> First, a greater involvement in evaluating educational software, not just
> from a teaching perpective, but from an IT perspective of stability. This
> will necessitate support from high up to enforce rules such as no teacher
> being able to unilaterally choose and puchase packages for deployment.
> And where software is found to be inadequate, communicate this back to
> the producer, clearly and objectively. Maybe the next version will be
> better this way.
> 
> Second, better planning and management of implmentations. This includes
> training as well as roll out. If you are involved with this type of
> activity, then perhaps project management fundamentals should be in your
> professional development plan.
> 
> I am beginning to see that the school environment does not always lend
> itself to doing these things better, and that it will be a challenge. But
> I do believe that these would go a long way toward getting back some of
> the lost faith.
> 
> A final point has come to mind, which I won't try to go back and
> integrate into me previous points. There does seem to be somewhat of a
> silo'd, us and them relationship between IT and other faculties (in fact,
> between faculties in general). The IT area is often seen as a hinderence,
> rather than an enabler. You go there when things break, not to make them
> work better. English (as an example) want's assignments presented as
> typed documents or powerpoint presentations, but the english teacher does
> not have the time or skill to teach the students how to use these tools.
> We now have a catch-22. The teacher can't give up the 4 - 6 hours
> required to teach powerpoint skills, so the students have to learn it on
> their own. The expectation is that having a tool like this available to
> them will improve the quality of their work, which it does. However the
> quality of presentation goes up, and the quality of content goes down
> because they spent most of the time learning how the tool worke!
>  d instead of learning the subject. Instead of English giving up 6 housr
>  to teach powerpoint, how about the first 3 days of each school year be
>  given over to ensuring that every student and member of faculty has a
>  basic grounding in word, excel, powerpoint. Everyone should be able to
>  create a table, do a mail merge, add up a column of numbers. No one
>  faculty gives up a large chunck of time, but all give up a small amount
>  once a year to ensure that the basics are covered. How this is achieved
>  is up for further debate.
> 
> Anyway, just my 2 cents (actually, now it's more like 5 cents).
> 
> Greg Neil
> Computer Systems Manager
> St Margaret's School, Berwick
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   tech-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Keith Richardson
> Sent:   Sat 6/25/2005 8:34 AM
> To:     Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List; List
> IS; ListMulti-Media; List Tech; List IP&M; List Moodle
> Cc:     
> Subject:        [Technical] RE: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning
> Standards
> DISCUSSION STARTER...
> I find it interesting to be in the MIDDLE of something huge that is
> happening, know that it is happening, yet not be able to see or
> understand WHY it is happening. Methinks that it has something to do
> with VALUES perhaps? When we talk about THEM, and THEY, we are (I
> assume) referring to the great mass of non-ICT-expert adults in the
> world. However, it is THEY who obviously have more control than we do
> over the values 'society' places on ICT education. This whole happening
> has many 'rippples-in-time', so to identify a few may be some way of
> feeling-out an understanding of what has happened. The Tech-Bubble was a
> major contributing event. When companies were falling over themselves to
> invest millions of dollars in ICT infrastructure, Web-based
> technologies, business models that had only red in the bottom line,
> instant millionaires created on false promises etc, WE LOST THE RESPECT
> of the rest of the world. It doesn't matter whose fault it was - the
> fact is that it HAPPENED.
> OK, so much for that pearl of perceptive wisdom. What I would like to
> know is, can anyone else shed light on the CAUSES of the current effects
> we are experiencing?
> Over to others!
> Keith Richardson.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:44:25 +1000, "Jim Bunn"
> <bunn.jim.c at edumail.vic.gov.au> said:
> > Thanks Roslyn,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > You paint a rather grim picture for ICT across the state. From where I'm
> > sitting I can only agree with you. The administration at my school has
> > been
> > trying for years to get rid of Junior 7-8 ICT ...sorry, integrate it into
> > other KLAs. With all due respect to our colleagues, the ICT teachers here
> > don't see the ICT skills in very many of our other teachers. It's a good
> > theory, but practically I just don't see it working effectively, at least
> > yet. My cynical view sees some people using ICT time as 'ok kids you have
> > the assignment, here are the computers,' and off the kids go while their
> > teachers mark work or check their email. The end of Junior ICT at this
> > school is inevitable. Other KLACs are already lining up for the extra
> > periods. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > In defence of integrating ICT into other disciplines, someone recently
> > said
> > to me something like, 'Schools used to teach touch typing but who does it
> > now?', as he smartly laughed.  A rather smug comment maybe, but I see
> > this
> > same mind set, or perception towards ICT. As a counter argument, one of
> > my
> > Cisco Networking students brings his laptop to class, and during my
> > frequent
> > PowerPoint lectures he sits there, and as he stares at the screen, he
> > madly
> > types away. The other students cannot believe what they see. They stare
> > in
> > amazement. These other students take notes (as you know) by looking at
> > the
> > screen, writing/typing a few words, looking back at the screen, and so
> > on. A
> > touch typist in the classroom is rare and really stands out. Sure these
> > other students can get by, but how much better are they if they have good
> > typing skills. I see the ICT skills that ICT teachers teach being lost as
> > our classes are integrated into other subjects. You've heard the argument
> > before, but here is again: we all are supposed to teach English/literacy
> > skills, so why not integrate English into all the other KLAs? Why not?
> > The
> > logic is the same. Why don't we do it? Because most of us are not
> > trained,
> > or don't have the English skills that an English-trained teacher has. How
> > are ICT skills any different??
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I think I'll forget about all this and have a nice, relaxing two weeks. I
> > hope everyone out there can do the same.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jim Bunn
> > CCNA CCAI
> > Technology Coordinator
> > Hampton Park Secondary College
> > Victoria  Australia
> > 
> > bunn.jim.c at edumail.vic.gov.au 
> > 
> >   _____  
> > 
> > From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Meadows, Roslyn M
> > Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 7:26 PM
> > To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks Paula,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Having poured over the documentation, publications, powerpoint
> > presentations, DVD and website since I first saw the VELS booklet last
> > year
> > (and went "oh shock horror!"), I believe that I, like most others on this
> > list, fully understand the gist (and possible implications) of VELS. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > But it is our collective fear that given the opportunity, and an already
> > crowded curriculum, many schools will take the opportunity to hit the
> > delete
> > button on ICT as a separate subject and attempt to integrate it into
> > other
> > subjects - thus freeing up a couple of periods per week in Year 7 and 8,
> > which will then be 'up for grabs' by other KLA's. Being a small learning
> > area (3 teachers at BSC) we will rarely have the 'numbers' in the vote
> > that
> > may or may not take place (in our school it will be a decision made by
> > the
> > principal). And sometimes these school based decisions are not made on
> > educational merits alone, but are more influenced by peoples' personal
> > agendas, which members of staff are on the committee that makes the
> > decision, the lobbying by some and the personalities of the lobbiers.
> > It's
> > all a matter of politics really! I have seen this happen numerous times
> > in
> > my years of teaching.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > In the previous emails to these lists which describe the experiences of
> > other schools who have already tried to integrate ICT, the ICT teachers
> > were
> > overwhelmingly disappointed in the outcome. 
> > 
> > 
> > The standards that each student must attain are in the VELS
> > documentation,
> > but who will be following this up to make sure that these standards are
> > met?
> > Will the VELS watch dogs be at every school to make sure that ICT skills
> > are
> > being learned? What will happen in a couple of years time once Maths or
> > SOSE
> > have gained these extra periods each week - will the ICT component of
> > their
> > course eventually be watered down to the bare minimum, or even less? 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > And how can an English, SOSE, Maths or Science teacher with little or no
> > interest in ICT (and perhaps little or no ICT knowledge or skills)
> > replace
> > an enthusiastic ICT teacher who has the knowledge, interest and the
> > experience teaching these skills? I am sorry but I see ICT skills as
> > being
> > much more relevant to today's students than, for example -  what food
> > ancient egyptians ate or what they wore (the subject of a Year 7 history
> > assignment that consumed many hours of cutting out, colouring in, and
> > drawing pictures that my daughter had to complete)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As an aside  - I did a brief 'hands up' survey earlier this week of two
> > year
> > 8 classes on "What is your favourite subject?" Only 3 subjects got a
> > guernsey - ICT, Sport and Art - with the overwhelming majority choosing
> > ICT.
> > (They have studied databases, web design, flash and image manipulation
> > this
> > semester - all of which has been put into the context of real world and
> > relevant situations - thanks Greg Bowden for your text and CD ROM).
> > Perhaps
> > this is a reflection of my enthusiasm for the subject (one would like to
> > think so), perhaps it is because they are always so engaged that there is
> > never any misbehaviour (and one of these classes has a number of
> > 'difficult'
> > students, which makes life rather tedious for the other 'good' kids),
> > perhaps it is because they just love sitting at a computer. How will the
> > kids feel if you take ICT away and give them an extra period of say,
> > Maths
> > and SOSE each week?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > So I continue to ask "Has VELS got it wrong?" (By even considering giving
> > schools a chance to integrate ICT across the curriculum) And I still
> > strongly believe that ICT should be up there with the big four (English,
> > SOSE, Maths, Science). And I don't believe that it can be successfully
> > integrated across the curriculum. It should not be considered just as a
> > tool
> > to be used in other areas of learning - as in
> > 
> > "...students will apply ICT knowledge and skills to:
> > 
> > *     develop understandings (ICT for visualising thinking)
> > 
> > *     demonstrate understandings (ICT for creating)
> > 
> > *     share understandings (ICT for communicating)
> > 
> > in other areas of learning."     (my underlining)
> > 
> > Millions of people around the world are employed in the ICT and related
> > industries, compared to the number of people employed in, for example,
> > history or art related industries. Yet history is considered important
> > enough to warrant 3 periods per week for one semester for 4 years, (about
> > 240 periods) whereas ICT gets 2 periods per week for 1.5 years, (about
> > 100
> > periods)  - and may lose this. ICT should be considered as a learning
> > area
> > on its own; it should not just be considered a tool to be used in other
> > learning areas.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Sorry to bore you all - I feel quite strongly about this. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Keep smiling everyone - holidays are just about upon us!
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Ros Meadows
> > 
> > Bentleigh SC
> > 
> > 9579 1044
> > 
> >  <mailto:meadows.roslyn.m at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> > meadows.roslyn.m at edumail.vic.gov.au
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____  
> > 
> > From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Christophersen, Paula
> > P
> > Sent: Thu 23/06/2005 4:31 PM
> > To: IPM List; Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> > Subject: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards
> > 
> > Dear colleagues
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Lately there has been some discussion about the 'interdisciplinary'
> > nature
> > of the ICT domain and its status in the Essential Learning Standards.
> > Being
> > a member of the Interdisciplinary Learning strand does not preclude ICT
> > from
> > being offered as a dedicated subject. Being interdisciplinary means that
> > in
> > their learning, students will apply ICT knowledge and skills to:
> > 
> > *     develop understandings (ICT for visualising thinking)
> > 
> > *     demonstrate understandings (ICT for creating)
> > 
> > *     share understandings (ICT for communicating)
> > 
> > in other areas of learning.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > How they actually acquire these knowledge and skills is up to the school.
> > For example, the locus of learning may be in a dedicated ICT subject
> > where
> > students would develop/acquire ICT knowledge and skills using authentic
> > data
> > and information pertaining to other domains. OR, other schools may
> > construct
> > a learning environment where the acquisition and application of ICT
> > knowledge and skills occurs in non-ICT classes. The choice is yours. The
> > Essential Learning Standards document does not mandate how students will
> > acquire the ICT knowledge and skills, but it does state the standards
> > that
> > must be demonstrated at progressive levels of learning. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I'm very happy to respond to any queries you may have regarding this
> > matter.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Paula Christophersen
> > 
> > ICT Curriculum Manager
> > 
> > VCAA
> > 
> > 41 St Andrews Place
> > 
> > EAST MELBOURNE 3002
> > 
> > (03) 9651 4378
> > 
> >  
> > 
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> Keith Richardson
> IPM List Moderator
> Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College
> Elsternwick
> Ph: 03.9528.4911
> k.richardson at yavneh.vic.edu.au
> 
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Keith Richardson
IPM List Moderator
Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College
Elsternwick
Ph: 03.9528.4911
k.richardson at yavneh.vic.edu.au