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<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma">Hi Mark,</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"> I think there is an attempt to "invite" use of OOP with the statement :</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The purpose-designed solutions will entail the use of objects, methods and their properties, and event-driven programming.
</span></p>
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<font size="2" face="tahoma">
<p dir="ltr" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="times new roman"></font></span> </p>
<p dir="ltr" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="times new roman">Does that mean user created objects which requires a class definition ? Does it mean inheritance is mandated or optional ?
</font></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><font face="times new roman">Does it mean inbuilt objects are sufficient such as the earlier example of textboxes which have methods ( addText or getText or similar ) and properties ( position, size,
height , width etc )</font></span></p>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="tahoma">I think the intention is to allow freedom for those who want to teach user built classes, objects and inheritance but not force those who can't or don't want to.</font></font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma">For a number of years I have expressed frustration that for those teachers who do, for example, teach OOP taking the statement above as it should be are not recognised and students not rewarded.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma">We need more prescriptive guidelines for the content, currency and methodology of the programming tasks.
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma">As a benefit of this we will not have to use blunt instruments like " no databases" or no other languages like SQL .</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma">Kind Regards</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"> </font></div>
<div>
<div><font size="2" face="Tahoma">Kevork Krozian</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><font face="tahoma">Digital Learning Manager</font><br>
<font face="tahoma">Forest Hill College</font></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="tahoma"><a href="mailto:k.krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au">k.krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
<font face="tahoma">Tel: 0419 356 034</font></font></div>
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<font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY [kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 6 August 2010 8:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011<br>
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<div>It's similar to the ITA course where the use of a relational DBMS is mandated, but there is no mention that the databases created by students need to be relational.<br>
<br>
Mandating an OOP is rather pointless unless the use of OOP's distinguishing features is also required; and - as has been mentioned - the chances of my typical cohort getting anywhere near inheritance in one VCE year is near-zero,<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 5 August 2010 19:47, Kevork Krozian <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:K.Krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au">K.Krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Mike,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> Great question. I think it is possible to teach OOP with inheritance at one level . However, as exams have never had any questions beyond 3GL ( selection, looping and sequence – will
that change for the next study design ? ) one has to wonder about the benefit of taking students to a level of using classes, objects and inheritance. The simple use of objects can be as rudimentary as reusing pre existing objects ( text box, label, etc )
and changing the properties of these. That is why I believe we need to state in more detail what a program is expected to do for each programming SAC.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> It is one thing mandating only use of true object oriented languages, quite another what you do with it. Eg. Use of OOP languages with use of wizards or as a 3GL language may satisfy
the language selection, but how does it stack up for either programming depth of knowledge or currency of programming methodology ?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I too would be curious as to what proportion of our colleagues use “real” OOP in their teaching and assessment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Kind Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Kevork</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Brookes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 5 August 2010 7:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List</p>
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<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<br>
Just to play devil's advocate here, whilst VB6 is technically not a complete OOL in that it does not directly support inheritance, it does cover all the criteria listed below.
<br>
You can define new classes and create instances of same.<br>
Out of sheer scientific curiosity, how many of you using "real" OOLs get into classes and inheritance given that many of our SD students have no previous programming skills/knowledge?<br>
<br>
Mike Brookes<br>
chief cook and bottlewasher Copperfield college<br>
<br>
On 5/08/2010 3:16 PM, Adrian Janson wrote: </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Leanne,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">VB6.0 is not a true object orientated programming language and so it is no longer acceptable. However, I think you will find that the move to VB.Net is not a difficult one and much of
the code is very similar.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cheers,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Adrian</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,32,96); FONT-SIZE: 18pt">Adrian Janson
</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,32,96); FONT-SIZE: 7pt">B.Sc, Dip.Ed, M.Ed<br>
</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,32,96); FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Director of ICT<br>
</span></b><span style="COLOR: rgb(36,64,97)">Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill, South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.<br>
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<br>
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<br>
E-mail: <a href="http://janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au" target="_blank">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(36,64,97)">Website: <a href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/" target="_blank">
http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(36,64,97)">Blog: <a href="http://jansona.edublogs.org/" target="_blank">
http://jansona.edublogs.org</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Leanne Wright<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 5 August 2010 2:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' M List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011</span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Does this mean that Visual Basic 6 is no longer acceptable. Leanne Wright<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 17:11:04 +1000<br>
From: <a href="mailto:iaquinto@ozemail.com.au">iaquinto@ozemail.com.au</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au">sofdev@edulists.com.au</a><br>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011<br>
<br>
Folks<br>
<br>
To reply to several messages I have just received privately, this advice is from the VCAA website. Kindly note that Paula posted it here but many of you may have been on holiday when it came out.<br>
<br>
Some languages have been removed from the list. One exciting addition is Objective-C which is for apps on the iPhone. Additionally, there is advice about database programming. This has been removed from the 2011 study design. All languages must be Object-Oriented.<br>
<br>
Perhaps Adrian or someone from VITTA will post some news about 'Gearing up for SD in 2011' to inform us of the changes to the Study Design.
<br>
<br>
Kevork recently posted info about the use of C# with respect to Study Design 2011. Several teachers attended that workshop.
<br>
<br>
Maggie<br>
--</span></p>
<h3><a name="12a41ac08636e742_H3N100B3"><span>Approved programming languages for the accredited study in 2011</span></a><span>
</span></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Students will use one programming language from the accompanying list, to develop purpose-designed solutions. In the development of solutions, students should be able to:</span></p>
<ul style="MARGIN-TOP: 0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">develop a graphical user interface (GUI), for use in mobile computing devices, such as laptops, personal digital assistants, gaming consoles, mobile phones</span>
</li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">construct and use data structures, for example multi-dimensional arrays, records, queues and stacks</span>
</li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">design, construct and use files (not databases) to store and retrieve data</span>
</li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">design and apply data validation techniques</span>
</li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">use program control structures: selection, iteration and sequencing.</span>
</li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The purpose-designed solutions will entail the use of objects, methods and their properties, and event-driven programming.</span></p>
<h4><span>List of approved languages</span></h4>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Basic (object-oriented variations only, e.g.
<a href="http://VB.NET" target="_blank">VB.NET</a>)<br>
C++<br>
C#<br>
Objective-C<br>
Pascal (object-oriented variations only, e.g. Delphi)<br>
Java<br>
Perl<br>
PHP<br>
Python<br>
Ruby<br>
With all of the above languages, databases are <b><span>not</span></b> to be used to support the construction of solutions. Students should be able to demonstrate the highest level of achievement using only the selected programming language. Additional languages
can be used to embellish a solution, for example JavaScript with web pages; however, these would be supplementary to the main language and not replace it.<br>
Specific distributions, projects or variations of languages may be suitable as long as they are able to address the criteria listed above, including, but not limited to, an object-oriented programming capability with graphical user interface features and file
handling. Since it is impractical to itemise each of these language variations, the VCAA recommends teachers firstly consider a language from the approved list.<br>
Teachers of VCE Software Development should note that the list of approved programming languages is revised each year and is published annually in the VCAA Bulletin VCE, VCAL and VET.<br>
<br>
</span></p>
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Manager - Information Systems; Reporting Manager<br>
McKinnon Secondary College<br>
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>
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School Phone +613 8520 9000, Fax +613 9578 9253<br>
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