<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m =
"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19154"><!--[if !mso]>
<STYLE>v\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
o\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
w\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
.shape {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
</STYLE>
<![endif]-->
<STYLE><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-AU;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></HEAD>
<BODY lang=EN-AU link=blue bgColor=#ffffff vLink=purple>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Perhaps I fall corrected</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Robert Hind (Semi-retired) OOF, GOM, COF<BR>Ashwood
and Traralgon<BR><A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Mann.Warrick.D@edumail.vic.gov.au
href="mailto:Mann.Warrick.D@edumail.vic.gov.au">Mann, Warrick D</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 05, 2011 8:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps]
Spreadsheet vs Database for U4O1</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
agree with Mark.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US> <A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>
[mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Mark
KELLY<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 5 December 2011 7:07 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps]
Spreadsheet vs Database for U4O1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Disagree. U4O1 key knowledge is
not database-driven. It applies equally to SS.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 5 December 2011 16:25, Robert Hind <<A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No Mark you did not
suggest that! But the U401 outcomes are essentially to do with databases,
whatever the SD says.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I just have a real
problem with using a spreadsheet to do what is essentially database work. It
is like using MS Word to do desktop publishing. Perhaps we are headed towards
the MSicandoitall.exe that will do word processing, spreadsheets, databases,
dtp, slide shows - and would you like fries with
that?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Please let's use
appropriate software.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Robert Hind
(Semi-retired) OOF, GOM, COF<BR>Ashwood and Traralgon<BR><A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com"
target=_blank>robert@yinnar.com</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>Mark KELLY</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=itapps@edulists.com.au href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Monday, December
05, 2011 3:30 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [Year 12 IT
Apps] Spreadsheet vs Database for U4O1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Hi Robert<BR><BR>I don't use
spreadsheets as databases... did I somehow suggest that?<BR><BR>I've found
the number of students having trouble with spreadsheets is <B>way</B> less
than those having dB trouble - and their marks for U4O1 compared to U3O2
clearly reflect that.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 5 December 2011 15:14, Robert Hind <<A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com" target=_blank>robert@yinnar.com</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hi Mark,<BR><BR>I have never been in favour of using a
spreadsheet as a database. So would<BR>really go for a RDBMS for U401 rather
than spreadsheet software. Introduce<BR>the RDBMS in year 11 and progress
from there. Sure some students have<BR>problems with databases, but
then the same students have trouble with<BR>spreadsheets :-)<BR><SPAN
style="COLOR: #888888"><BR>Robert Hind (Semi-retired) OOF, GOM,
COF<BR>Ashwood and Traralgon<BR><A href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com"
target=_blank>robert@yinnar.com</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark
Scott" <<A href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>msc@luther.vic.edu.au</A>><BR>To: "Year 12 IT Applications
Teachers' Mailing List"<BR><<A href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>itapps@edulists.com.au</A>><BR>Sent: Monday, December 05,
2011 10:28 AM<BR>Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Spreadsheet vs Database for
U4O1<BR><BR><BR>> Dear all<BR>><BR>> I am considering a move away
from Spreadsheets for U4O1.<BR>><BR>> It just seemed that the 2011
exam might have favoured those students who<BR>> did Databases
instead.<BR>><BR>> What do people think?<BR>><BR>>
thanks<BR>> Mark Scott<BR>> Luther College<BR>><BR>> "The busier
you get, the slower you walk" anon<BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe<BR>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<BR>>
<A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html"
target=_blank>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A>
-<BR>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><BR>>
<A href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target=_blank>http://www.vitta.org.au</A>
- VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers<BR>> Association
Inc <br><BR>> <A href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools"
target=_blank>http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</A> - Swinburne
University<BR>><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe<BR>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<BR><A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html"
target=_blank>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><BR><A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target=_blank>http://www.vitta.org.au</A>
- VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
<br><BR><A href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools"
target=_blank>http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</A> - Swinburne
University<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Mark Kelly<BR>Manager of
ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<BR>McKinnon Secondary College<BR>McKinnon
Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<BR>Direct line / Voicemail: <A
href="tel:%2B613%208520%209085" target=_blank>+613 8520 9085</A>, Fax <A
href="tel:%2B613%209578%209253" target=_blank>+613 9578 9253</A><BR><A
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A><BR>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <A
href="http://vceit.com" target=_blank>http://vceit.com</A><BR>Moderator: <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au/" target=_blank>IT Applications
Edulist</A><BR><BR>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr
Fibonacci.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe<BR>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<BR><A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html"
target=_blank>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><BR><A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au"
target=_blank>http://www.vitta.org.au</A> - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc <br><BR><A
href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools"
target=_blank>http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</A> - Swinburne
University<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au</A>
- FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>IT Applications Mailing List
kindly supported by<BR><A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html"
target=_blank>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><BR><A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target=_blank>http://www.vitta.org.au</A>
- VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
<br><BR><A href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools"
target=_blank>http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</A> - Swinburne
University<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Mark Kelly<BR>Manager of ICT,
Reporting, IT Learning Area<BR>McKinnon Secondary College<BR>McKinnon Rd
McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<BR>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085,
Fax +613 9578 9253<BR><A href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A><BR>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <A
href="http://vceit.com" target=_blank>http://vceit.com</A><BR>Moderator: <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au/" target=_blank>IT Applications
Edulist</A><BR><BR>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr
Fibonacci.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P></P>
<P><B>Important - </B>This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or
using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not,
resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and
not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
Development.</P>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>http://www.edulists.com.au
- FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>IT Applications Mailing List
kindly supported
by<BR>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
<br><BR>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information
Technology Teachers Association Inc
<br><BR>http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne
University</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>