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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>No problems Mark - I like the show, although Marty
Feldman's appearance worries me a little - are you suggesting that all this
RDBMS stuff is a monster comedy or a perhaps a comedy of monsters!?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robert T-A</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">Mark KELLY</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:48
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Normal
forms</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Many thanks for the document, Robert. I've been looking for a
while to find a neat example of 1NF to 3NF progress.<BR><BR>I've taken the
liberty of adapting it into a slideshow...<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.vceit.com/slideshows/database-normalisation-example.ppt">http://www.vceit.com/slideshows/database-normalisation-example.ppt</A><BR><BR>Cheers<BR>Mark<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 17 October 2011 17:13, Timmer-Arends <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:timmer@melbpc.org.au">timmer@melbpc.org.au</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><U></U>
<DIV lang=EN-AU bgcolor="#ffffff" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>just to chip in my 2-cents worth, yes, there
might be different processes that lead to a normalised db, but the
definitions of 1NF, 2NF, and 3NF are pretty solid and have been for at least
30 years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>attached is my version of the
story</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robert T-A</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=im>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=msc@luther.vic.edu.au href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>Mark Scott</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au" target=_blank>Year 12 IT Applications
Teachers' Mailing List</A> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 17, 2011 1:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Normal
forms</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Joseph<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Your explanation looks
and sounds simple enough but...<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">There are at least half a
dozen different definitions of this process. (although the 1NF explanation
is fairly consistent) <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And, most importantly, we
still do not know how the VCAA (Hi Paula) defines the process of
Normalisation and in particular the first three
forms.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’m expecting a very
simple question on this on the exam (hopefully just a 1NF
question).<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Anything too complicated
and this mailing list will be on fire after the
exam.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">thanks<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Mark
Scott<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Luther
College<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">“Don’t water the rocks”
Gerry Smith, River Oaks Public School<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Joseph Papaleo<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 17 October 2011 1:36
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Normal
forms<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm">Mark,<BR>In
a nutshell, I've taught it as :<BR><BR>1NF - tidy the table(s) up
horizontally<BR>ie Fields contain only a single value eg Name: Mr Barney
Rubble changes to <BR>Title: Mr<BR>Fname: Barney <BR>Sname: Rubble<BR
clear=all><BR>Remove repeating Groups (as per Mark's
comments)<BR><BR><BR>2NF - Tidy the table(s) up Vertically<BR>Eliminate
duplication in records down the table by using a Primary Key that each
record refers to.<BR>Continue to do this as often as required until
duplication is removed from all tables- students should see the need for a
new table if there is duplication with their own unique Primary
Key.<BR><BR><BR>3NF - Make all fields in a table Mutually Exclusive<BR>ie,
no field can rely on another. eg table may contain "Quantity" and
"Price", but it cannot contain "Total Cost" as Total cost = Quantity x
Price.<BR><BR>I'm concerned that my students understand this, but they
found it difficult to do. Also concerned that I may have used an old or
inferior resource.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Joseph Papaleo<BR>Ivanhoe Grammar
School,<BR>Plenty Campus<BR><BR><BR><BR><U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt">On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 1:04
PM, Mark KELLY <<A href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt">Groan. I just spent
another 30 minutes trying to explain the differences between 2NF and 3NF
to my dears. <BR>As usual, by the time I finished, I think they knew
less than when I started.<BR><BR>1NF is pretty clear cut...<BR> - no
duplicate rows (i.e. identical records)<BR> - no multiple columns
that contain the same *type* of data (e.g. child1, child2,
child3)<BR> - only one piece of data per field (e.g. don't store 2
phone numbers for a person in the 'phone' field; put street
address/suburb/postcode in separate fields; in Filemaker, don't use
repeating fields) <BR><BR>But 2NF is really only a problem if you
use *multiple* fields as a key (e.g. using firstname + lastname + phone as
a unique key) instead of using a unique and arbitrary key field, like an
ID number. <BR>I realise now that my kids have trouble absorbing 2NF
because at no time in their database education have I ever *mentioned* the
possibility of using multiple fields as the key. So explaining 2NF to them
was a bit like warning them not to walk using their ears - the concept had
never even dawned on them before. To them, having a non-key field that did
not give information about *all* of the key fields was a strange and scary
possibility.<BR><BR>3NF is, I think, relatively straight forward. Each
non-key field must give information about the key and not to another
non-key field. Violation of 3NF is usually pretty obvious because it
looks "strange".<BR><BR>After 2 slideshows, I'm still trying to work out a
way to make it sound really clear... next time, maybe. If anyone has
hit on a sure-fire summary of differentiating normal forms, I'd love to
hear of it.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888"><BR>-- <BR>Mark
Kelly<BR>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<BR>McKinnon Secondary
College<BR>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<BR>Direct line /
Voicemail: <A href="tel:%2B613%208520%209085" target=_blank>+613 8520
9085</A>, Fax <A href="tel:%2B613%209578%209253" target=_blank>+613 9578
9253</A><BR><A href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A><BR>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <A
href="http://vceit.com" target=_blank>http://vceit.com</A><BR>Moderator:
<A href="http://www.edulists.com.au/" target=_blank>IT Applications
Edulist</A><BR><BR>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr
Fibonacci.<BR></SPAN><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
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- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<BR><A
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Inc<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P></P>
<HR>
<DIV class=im>
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- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<BR><A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au"
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Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</DIV>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
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target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
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- VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association
Inc<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Mark Kelly<BR>Manager
of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<BR>McKinnon Secondary College<BR>McKinnon
Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<BR>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520
9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<BR><A href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au"
target=_blank>kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A><BR>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <A
href="http://vceit.com" target=_blank>http://vceit.com</A><BR>Moderator: <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au/" target=_blank>IT Applications
Edulist</A><BR><BR><FONT size=+0>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr
</FONT>Fibonacci.<BR>
<P>
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