Hi again, The Other Mark.<br><br>The SS/dB choice will probably raise its head again once we&#39;ve experienced our first year of U3O2/U4O1.  I doubt that I&#39;ll change from doing spreadsheets for U4O1.  My kids don&#39;t thrive on database tasks, and teaching spreadsheet skills is a doddle in comparison; and the kids like them. <br>

<br>Most kids already have spreadsheet experience, and the database skills in U3O2 can be easily transferred to spreadsheets (formulas, IPO, interface design, validation, lookups etc).<br><br>Even if they had all year to practise databases, I doubt they would 
reach the level they do with spreadsheets in a few short weeks. If nothing else, I find the spreadsheet in U4O1 is a morale-lifter for them as their last practical outcome.  <br><br>Their marks on spreadsheet outcomes are certainly streets better than that from the database outcome, and that&#39;s good enough reason for me. <br>

<br>As for employability skills... I don&#39;t assume that anything I teach them will directly help them get a job. Anyway, nearly all of our cohort is heading straight for uni where - I believe - they start from scratch when teaching IT, so specific software skills are often not directly transferable: unless you&#39;re lucky.  But I might be mistaken about that.<br>

<br>Cheers<br>Mark<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 May 2011 15:49, Mark Scott <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-AU"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I am doing Spreadsheets for Unit 4 Outcome 1 this year.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Next year I am thinking about doing Databases instead.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It would seem logical to just extend the students skill set in one software type.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Any thoughts, anybody?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal">

<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mark Scott</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Luther College</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be”</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark KELLY<br>

<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 May 2011 3:34 PM</span></p><div class="im"><br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers&#39; Mailing List<br></div><div class="im"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] DB SAC</div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">

 </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">You wouldn&#39;t <b>lose</b> marks for adding formatting, forms, controls etc, but you wouldn&#39;t be getting marks for them.  And spending too much time on these things may distract students from spending time on things that <b>do</b> get marks.</p>

<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br>Some primitive form of input/output is necessary to get the data into the tables and get printouts of answers produced (I get kids to print output rather than assessing onscreen).  It&#39;s just that I/O is not much important in U3O2.  Anyway, it&#39;s not as if it takes hours of work or masses of skill to produce basic output ! <br>

<br>I wouldn&#39;t panic about <b>adding</b> features, just about leaving out necessary features.<br><br>Regards<br>Mark</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">

On 26 May 2011 11:08, Mark KELLY &lt;<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>&gt; wrote:</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">

Hi, OtherMark<br><br>Formatting is not important to this outcome, but it is assessable if RDBMS is used for U4O1...</p><p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b>If students use a relational database management system in Unit 4, the following additional functions apply:</b></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">         </span></span></span><b>import/export of data</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">         </span></span></span><b>format data for display</b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">

<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">         </span></span></span><b>create and edit a range of forms, including different data types and controls</b></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">         </span></span></span><b>create and edit a range of formatted reports.</b></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"> </p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">On 26 May 2011 10:47, Mark Scott &lt;<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>&gt; wrote:</p>

</div></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">HELP!!!!!!!!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">From VCAA</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Relational database management system <br>

The following functions apply to Unit 3:</span></i></p><p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create tables</span></i></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create relationships between tables</span></i></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">use a range of data types</span></i></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">electronic validation</span></i></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create, edit and use queries</span></i></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">use of calculated fields</span></i></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">sort records or index on different fields.</span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Can someone confirm that:</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">formatting (apart from sorting) is not a part of this SAC?</span></p>

<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">        </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">drop down lists are not appropriate for tables (only forms)</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Mark Scott</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">

<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Luther College</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> </p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>

<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>

<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a>  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><br><br clear="all">

<br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br><a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>

VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">

<br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br>

<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br>

Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.</p></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
<a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>


<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a>  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>

McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br><a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>

VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br><font>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr </font>Fibonacci.<br>