Good point Mark. <div><br></div><div>A colleague in industry laughed when I suggested we were still teaching databases with Access .. they buy stuff off the shelf or if web based, use PHP SQL (ala kevork's work). He agreed that there was still potential left for spreadsheets for modelling or look-see applications and indicated that I should explore collaborative tools such as GoogleApps spreadsheets.<div>
<br></div><div>Last month at GTASYD I saw some really impressive stuff when we touched base with GoogleApp scripts, bits of code you can load up into Google spreadsheets that were being used by teachers for a swag of different applications. </div>
<div> <a href="http://edutraining.googleapps.com/Training-Home/module-5-sites/chapter-5/7-1">http://edutraining.googleapps.com/Training-Home/module-5-sites/chapter-5/7-1</a></div><div><br></div><div>There were plenty of good examples and help to get you going.</div>
<div> <a href="http://code.google.com/googleapps/appsscript/index.html">http://code.google.com/googleapps/appsscript/index.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>Best thing with this stuff is that it uses open standards, is free, cross platform and can even be used at home without licence issues.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards Roland</div><div><br></div><div><div name="sig_d41d8cd98f" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0pt; "></div><div class="gmail_quote">On 27 May 2011 08:44, Mark KELLY <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hi again, The Other Mark.<br><br>The SS/dB choice will probably raise its head again once we've experienced our first year of U3O2/U4O1. I doubt that I'll change from doing spreadsheets for U4O1. My kids don't thrive on database tasks, and teaching spreadsheet skills is a doddle in comparison; and the kids like them. <br>
<br>Most kids already have spreadsheet experience, and the database skills in U3O2 can be easily transferred to spreadsheets (formulas, IPO, interface design, validation, lookups etc).<br><br>Even if they had all year to practise databases, I doubt they would
reach the level they do with spreadsheets in a few short weeks. If nothing else, I find the spreadsheet in U4O1 is a morale-lifter for them as their last practical outcome. <br><br>Their marks on spreadsheet outcomes are certainly streets better than that from the database outcome, and that's good enough reason for me. <br>
<br>As for employability skills... I don't assume that anything I teach them will directly help them get a job. Anyway, nearly all of our cohort is heading straight for uni where - I believe - they start from scratch when teaching IT, so specific software skills are often not directly transferable: unless you're lucky. But I might be mistaken about that.<br>
<br>Cheers<br><font color="#888888">Mark</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 May 2011 15:49, Mark Scott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-AU"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I am doing Spreadsheets for Unit 4 Outcome 1 this year.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Next year I am thinking about doing Databases instead.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It would seem logical to just extend the students skill set in one software type.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Any thoughts, anybody?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mark Scott</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Luther College</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark KELLY<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 May 2011 3:34 PM</span></p><div><br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] DB SAC</div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">You wouldn't <b>lose</b> marks for adding formatting, forms, controls etc, but you wouldn't be getting marks for them. And spending too much time on these things may distract students from spending time on things that <b>do</b> get marks.</p>
<div><div></div><div><br><br>Some primitive form of input/output is necessary to get the data into the tables and get printouts of answers produced (I get kids to print output rather than assessing onscreen). It's just that I/O is not much important in U3O2. Anyway, it's not as if it takes hours of work or masses of skill to produce basic output ! <br>
<br>I wouldn't panic about <b>adding</b> features, just about leaving out necessary features.<br><br>Regards<br>Mark</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
On 26 May 2011 11:08, Mark KELLY <<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
Hi, OtherMark<br><br>Formatting is not important to this outcome, but it is assessable if RDBMS is used for U4O1...</p><p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b>If students use a relational database management system in Unit 4, the following additional functions apply:</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><b>import/export of data</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><b>format data for display</b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><b>create and edit a range of forms, including different data types and controls</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><b>create and edit a range of formatted reports.</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"> </p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">On 26 May 2011 10:47, Mark Scott <<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:</p>
</div></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">HELP!!!!!!!!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">From VCAA</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Relational database management system <br>
The following functions apply to Unit 3:</span></i></p><p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create tables</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create relationships between tables</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">use a range of data types</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">electronic validation</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create, edit and use queries</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">use of calculated fields</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">sort records or index on different fields.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Can someone confirm that:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">formatting (apart from sorting) is not a part of this SAC?</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">drop down lists are not appropriate for tables (only forms)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Mark Scott</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Luther College</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> </p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><br><br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br><a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br>
<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br>
Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.</p></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
<a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>
McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br><a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br><font>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr </font>Fibonacci.<br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
<a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>--<br>Roland Gesthuizen - eLearning Coordinator - Keysborough Secondary College<br>
<br>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead<br>
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