Hi Mike<br><br>The examiners <b>cannot</b> assume students have done spreadsheets. They <b>can</b> ask direct questions about databases.  They will definitely have database-specific questions, and other questions that could apply to spreadsheets or databases.<br>

<br>&lt;niggle&gt;<br>They also cannot assume students have familiarity with a particular database make or model (such as MS Access) but their terminology has always tended to be Access-flavoured. If your kids don&#39;t swim in the mainstream, teach them how to translate Access terms and concepts to your preferred RDBMS.<br>

&lt;/niggle&gt;<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 27 May 2011 15:48, Jolly, Michael D <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:Jolly.Michael.D@edumail.vic.gov.au">Jolly.Michael.D@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">







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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I wonder how the exam will be handled? Will there be alternative questions in the multiple choice section?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Mike Jolly</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Year 9 Co-ordinator</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Kyneton Secondary College</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:jolly.michael.d@edumail.vic.gov.au" target="_blank">jolly.michael.d@edumail.vic.gov.au</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">03 5421 1100</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">0412 75 1984</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark KELLY<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 May 2011 8:45 AM</span></p><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers&#39; Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] DB SAC</div></div><p></p>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi again, The Other Mark.<br>
<br>
The SS/dB choice will probably raise its head again once we&#39;ve experienced our first year of U3O2/U4O1.  I doubt that I&#39;ll change from doing spreadsheets for U4O1.  My kids don&#39;t thrive on database tasks, and teaching spreadsheet skills is a doddle in comparison;
 and the kids like them. <br>
<br>
Most kids already have spreadsheet experience, and the database skills in U3O2 can be easily transferred to spreadsheets (formulas, IPO, interface design, validation, lookups etc).<br>
<br>
Even if they had all year to practise databases, I doubt they would reach the level they do with spreadsheets in a few short weeks. If nothing else, I find the spreadsheet in U4O1 is a morale-lifter for them as their last practical outcome. 
<br>
<br>
Their marks on spreadsheet outcomes are certainly streets better than that from the database outcome, and that&#39;s good enough reason for me.
<br>
<br>
As for employability skills... I don&#39;t assume that anything I teach them will directly help them get a job. Anyway, nearly all of our cohort is heading straight for uni where - I believe - they start from scratch when teaching IT, so specific software skills
 are often not directly transferable: unless you&#39;re lucky.  But I might be mistaken about that.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Mark</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 26 May 2011 15:49, Mark Scott &lt;<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I am doing Spreadsheets for Unit 4 Outcome 1 this year.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Next year I am thinking about doing Databases instead.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It would seem logical to just extend the students skill set in one software type.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Any thoughts, anybody?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mark Scott</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Luther College</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be”</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark KELLY<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 May 2011 3:34 PM</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers&#39; Mailing List</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] DB SAC</p>
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 </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
You wouldn&#39;t <b>lose</b> marks for adding formatting, forms, controls etc, but you wouldn&#39;t be getting marks for them.  And spending too much time on these things may distract students from spending time on things that
<b>do</b> get marks.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Some primitive form of input/output is necessary to get the data into the tables and get printouts of answers produced (I get kids to print output rather than assessing onscreen).  It&#39;s just that I/O is not much important in U3O2.  Anyway, it&#39;s not as if it
 takes hours of work or masses of skill to produce basic output ! <br>
<br>
I wouldn&#39;t panic about <b>adding</b> features, just about leaving out necessary features.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Mark</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
On 26 May 2011 11:08, Mark KELLY &lt;<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
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Hi, OtherMark<br>
<br>
Formatting is not important to this outcome, but it is assessable if RDBMS is used for U4O1...</p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b>If students use a relational database management system in Unit 4, the following additional functions apply:</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">        
</span><b>import/export of data</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">        
</span><b>format data for display</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">        
</span><b>create and edit a range of forms, including different data types and controls</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt">        
</span><b>create and edit a range of formatted reports.</b></p>
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 </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
On 26 May 2011 10:47, Mark Scott &lt;<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">HELP!!!!!!!!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">From VCAA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Relational database management system
<br>
The following functions apply to Unit 3:</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create tables</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create relationships between tables</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">use a range of data types</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">electronic validation</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">create, edit and use queries</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">use of calculated fields</span></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">sort records or index on different fields.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Can someone confirm that:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">formatting (apart from sorting) is not a part of this SAC?</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">       
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">drop down lists are not appropriate for tables (only forms)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Mark Scott</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Luther College</span></p>
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 </p>
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<br>
-- <br>
Mark Kelly<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Mark Kelly<br></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Mark Kelly<br>
<br></p></div></div></div></div></div><br></blockquote></div>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br>

<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br>

<font>Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr </font>Fibonacci.<br>