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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Thanks for that clarification Mark. I missed that.
As perhaps did others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Robert Hind (Semi-retired) OOF, GOM<BR>Ashwood and
Traralgon<BR><A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">Mark KELLY</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 02, 2011 3:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample
exam questionsandentity-relationshipdiagrams</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>NF1-3 were specified in the FAQ (VCAA Bulletin, No. 85 November
2010)<BR><BR><I>8. How many levels of normalisation are required in Unit 3, IT
applications, Area of Study 2?<BR>Students are expected to know the first
three data normalisation rules, which are typically referred to
as:<BR><BR>first normal form (1NF),<BR>second normal form (2NF) and<BR>third
normal form (3NF).<BR><BR>The application of these rules should assist in
reducing, and even eliminating data redundancy.<BR></I><BR>On 2 April 2011
13:13, Robert Hind <<A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> Good point Andrew.<BR>> <BR>> But let me go
back a bit:<BR>> <BR>> The study design at no stage mentions 1NF,
2NF and 3NF, under key knowledge it says only:<BR>><BR>> "• a
methodology for creating an RDBMS structure: identifying tables and fields;
normalising tables,defining data types and field sizes, identifying primary
key and foreign key fields<BR>><BR>> • ways in which normalisation can
ensure the integrity of data in an RDBMS"<BR>><BR>> So "normalisation"
in general - yes, specific details of NF1-3 - no ?<BR>><BR>> So what is
a "wasted" exam question?<BR>><BR>> Firstly it is one that does not
examine the key knowledges and skills specified in the study
design.<BR>><BR>> Secondly it is one that does not allow for
differentiation between students with different knowledge and skill levels -
so not too hard and not too easy - helps us reliably rank the students in
order on the exam as a whole.<BR>><BR>> It would seem to me that the
sample question originally quoted by Laura goes beyond the key knowledge and
skills specified in the study design.<BR>><BR>> This does need to be
clarified from the VCAA end.<BR>><BR>> Robert Hind (Semi-retired) OOF,
GOM<BR>> Ashwood and Traralgon<BR>> <A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</A><BR>><BR>>
<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>> From: Andrew Shortell<BR>> To: Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing List<BR>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011
12:45 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions
andentity-relationshipdiagrams<BR>> Your analysis of past papers (and for
me the insights gained from being an exam marker for years and vce teacher for
17 years and exam writer etc) would lead you to consider the purpose of the
exam and what it means to have a "wasted" question --to set an exam with a
"wasted" question is not worthwhile .... (think about it!!)<BR>> part of
teaching unit 3 & 4 is all about understanding the exam and how the exam
panel thinks and then acting on that knowledge. <BR>> Andrew<BR>>
Andrew Shortell<BR>> Heidelberg Teaching Unit in 2011<BR>> On
02/04/2011, at 6:31 AM, Mark Scott wrote:<BR>><BR>> Which could all be
solved if VCAA shared there understanding of the three Normal Forms.<BR>>
<BR>> yours in frustration<BR>> Mark Scott<BR>> Luther
College<BR>> <BR>> ________________________________<BR>>
From: <A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A> [<A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>]
On Behalf Of Mark KELLY [<A
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A>]<BR>>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:40 PM<BR>> To: Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT
Apps] Sample exam questions andentity-relationship diagrams<BR>><BR>> By
the looks of the sample exam questions my ITA kids are going to be
seriously troubled. I'm guessing a question like 3c is going to score about
0.01 marks out of 2 on average across the state. I wonder what the success
rate would be amongst ITA teachers for that question... To get my kids to
answer it well, I'd need to spend at least two periods (more like a week) just
on normalisation theory - and frankly, it's not worth it.<BR>><BR>>
Sorry for being grumpy about this, but this level of complexity really does
not suit ITA. I don't mind normalisation being a bit of key knowledge,
but how it might be examined seems excessive.<BR>><BR>> Woof!<BR>>
Grumpy Mark K<BR>><BR>> On 1 April 2011 17:08, Timmer-Arends <<A
href="mailto:timmer@melbpc.org.au">timmer@melbpc.org.au</A>> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>
Hello Mark<BR>>> <BR>>> I'm curious to know what these
conflicting sources are.<BR>>> <BR>>> I've followed Robert
H's link and the page one gets to doesn't actually define them but does
describe a (simplified) process to get to each NF - and what one gets
from the process does conform with NF defs. The links from this page do
go to definitions and they are in agreement with other sources I have looked
at.<BR>>> <BR>>> Mark K's quote is a definition of 2NF that
conforms to other definitions.<BR>>> <BR>>> The only
difference I can see between various versions I have read is the degree of
mathematical/academic gobbledy-gook involved.<BR>>> <BR>>>
1NF, 2NF and 3NF were defined way back in the seventies and because they were
formed from a theoretical basis I don't think they are going to have changed
all that much.<BR>>> <BR>>> About the only thing that seems
to have changed greatly is the addition of another three NFs.<BR>>>
<BR>>> I think the issue is a problem with the question, not with
the consistency of the definitions. Decoding the definitions for consumption
by students is of course another matter...<BR>>> <BR>>>
Regards<BR>>> Robert T-A<BR>>> <BR>>>
<BR>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>><BR>>>
From: Mark Scott<BR>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List<BR>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:45 PM<BR>>>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions
andentity-relationship diagrams<BR>>> Paula<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> This is good stuff but we are still struggling
with Question 3c<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>> Any
chance of a VCAA definition of what actually goes in 1NF, 2NF and
3NF.<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>> The definitions
are different depending on which “source” you use.<BR>>>
thanks<BR>>> Mark Scott<BR>>> Luther College<BR>>> PS I
suppose we could all wait for the guru (Mark Kelly) to provide an
answer. J<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>> From: <A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>] On
Behalf Of Christophersen, Paula P<BR>>> Sent: Friday, 1 April
2011 1:32 PM<BR>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List<BR>>> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions and
entity-relationship diagrams<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>> Dear
colleagues<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>> The
examination specifications and some sample questions focusing on new content
in the study design are now on the VCAA website:<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> <A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf</A><BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>> Structurally the
examination remains the same – two sections: Section A multiple choice;
Section B short and extended responses.<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> I draw your attention to a couple of matters in
the sample questions:<BR>>>
· Question 4 focuses on
an entity relationship diagram – this hopefully clarifies recent concerns that
have been raised.<BR>>>
· Question 7 illustrates
one way in which the examination can deal with the choice of different
software in Unit 4, Area of Study 1. Here a common question is presented, and
students select the software tool to explain their answer.<BR>>>
· Question 9 is an
example of an extended response (worth 8 marks) with prompts to guide
answers<BR>>>
· Question 12 is an
example of the scope of a question on RDBMS – the focus can only extent to
what is covered in Unit 3. Again it illustrates an extended response with
prompts<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>><BR>>>
Regards<BR>>> Paula<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>>> Paula Christophersen<BR>>> ICT Curriculum
Manager<BR>>> VCAA<BR>>> 41 St Andrews Place<BR>>> EAST
MELBOURNE 3002<BR>>> (03) 9651 4378<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>>><BR>><BR>> -- <BR>> Mark Kelly<BR>> Manager
of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<BR>> McKinnon Secondary College<BR>>
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<BR>> Direct line /
Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<BR>> <A
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A><BR>>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: <A
href="http://vceit.com">http://vceit.com</A><BR>> Moderator: IT
Applications Edulist<BR>><BR>> All generalisations are false, except
this one.<BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly
supported by<BR>> <A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A> -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<BR>> <A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> - VITTA
Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<BR>><BR>>
________________________________<BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly
supported by<BR>> <A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<BR>> <A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> - VITTA
Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> <A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly
supported by<BR>> <A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</A>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<BR>> <A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> - VITTA
Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association
Inc<BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Mark Kelly<BR>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning
Area<BR>McKinnon Secondary College<BR>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria,
Australia<BR>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<BR><A
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</A><BR>VCE
IT Lecture Notes: <A
href="http://vceit.com">http://vceit.com</A><BR>Moderator: IT Applications
Edulist<BR><BR>All generalisations are false, except this one.<BR><BR>
<P>
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