Yes, boiling down the NFs for kids is the big issue. In the past I've boiled it down to soup level: "normalisation is removing data redundancy, increasing database efficiency, and maximising data access by creating separate related tables. Here's an example. It's a good idea. Let's move on..."<br>
<br>Kids can handle that.<br><br>I already know what the looks on my kids' faces will be if I delved any deeper into 1,2,3 NF. I really doubt the benefit of such a venture in ITA, considering our typical clientele. Some of them still have trouble telling the difference between efficiency and effectiveness. Six of my 24 kids are ESL and don't understand the word "appropriate".<br>
<br>Most of them find databases quite challenging enough without making matters more painful with NF-level theory.<br><br>By the looks of the <a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf">sample exam questions</a> my ITA kids are going to be seriously troubled. I'm guessing a question like 3c is going to score about 0.01 marks out of 2 on average across the state. I wonder what the success rate would be amongst ITA teachers for that question... To get my kids to answer it well, I'd need to spend at least two periods (more like a week) just on normalisation theory - and frankly, it's not worth it.<br>
<br>IMO, such levels of complexity do not sit well with VCE level. Even my SD kids would have trouble with this. Sure: ask kids why normalisation is a good idea, but to differentiate the different levels is overkill, I think. <br>
<br>If I had to choose between spending a week on normalisation, and a week on key fields and 1-to-many relationships (and we all <b>do</b> need to decide this), I know where I'll spend my valuable class time.<br><br>
Sorry for being grumpy about this, but this level of complexity really does not suit ITA. I don't mind normalisation being a bit of key knowledge, but how it might be examined seems excessive.<br><br>Woof!<br>Grumpy Mark K<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 1 April 2011 17:08, Timmer-Arends <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:timmer@melbpc.org.au">timmer@melbpc.org.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div vlink="purple" link="blue" bgcolor="#ffffff" lang="EN-AU">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Hello Mark</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I'm curious to know what these conflicting sources
are.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I've followed Robert H's link and the page one gets
to doesn't actually define them but does describe a (simplified) process to
get to each NF - and what one gets from the process does conform with NF
defs. The links from this page do go to definitions and they are in agreement
with other sources I have looked at. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Mark K's quote is a definition of 2NF that conforms
to other definitions.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">The only difference I can see between various
versions I have read is the degree of mathematical/academic gobbledy-gook
involved.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">1NF, 2NF and 3NF were defined way back in the
seventies and because they were formed from a theoretical basis I don't think
they are going to have changed all that much.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">About the only thing that seems to have changed
greatly is the addition of another three NFs.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I think the issue is a problem with the question,
not with the consistency of the definitions. Decoding the definitions for
consumption by students is of course another matter...</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Regards</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Robert T-A</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="padding-right:0px;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left:#000000 2px solid;margin-right:0px"><div class="im">
<div style="background:#e4e4e4;font:10pt arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="msc@luther.vic.edu.au" href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">Mark
Scott</a> </div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="itapps@edulists.com.au" href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</a> </div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div style="font:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 01, 2011 2:45
PM</div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample
exam questions andentity-relationship diagrams</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'">Paula</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'">This is good
stuff but we are still struggling with Question 3c</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'">Any chance of
a VCAA definition of what actually goes in 1NF, 2NF and
3NF.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'">The
definitions are different depending on which “source” you
use.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'">thanks<br>Mark
Scott<br>Luther College</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'">PS
I suppose we could all wait for the guru (Mark Kelly) to provide an answer.
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'"><br><br><br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'"> </span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif'"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:medium none;padding-right:0cm;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;padding-left:0cm;padding-bottom:0cm;border-left:medium none;padding-top:3pt;border-bottom:medium none">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><b><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Christophersen, Paula P<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 1 April 2011
1:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List<br><b>Subject:</b> [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions and
entity-relationship diagrams</span></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Dear colleagues</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">The examination specifications and some sample
questions focusing on new content in the study design are now on the VCAA
website:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Structurally the examination remains the same – two
sections: Section A multiple choice; Section B short and extended responses.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">I draw your attention to a couple of matters in the
sample questions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span style="font:7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 4 focuses on an entity relationship diagram –
this hopefully clarifies recent concerns that have been
raised.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span style="font:7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 7 illustrates one way in which the
examination can deal with the choice of different software in Unit 4, Area of
Study 1. Here a common question is presented, and students select the software
tool to explain their answer.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span style="font:7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 9 is an example of an extended response
(worth 8 marks) with prompts to guide answers</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span style="font:7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 12 is an example of the scope of a question
on RDBMS – the focus can only extent to what is covered in Unit 3. Again it
illustrates an extended response with prompts</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Paula</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Paula Christophersen</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">ICT Curriculum Manager</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">VCAA</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">41 St Andrews Place</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">EAST MELBOURNE 3002</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">(03) 9651 4378</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div></div></div><br><p></p></blockquote></div>
<br clear="all"></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br>
<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br>
<font>All generalisations are false, except this one.</font><br><br>