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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The problem of course being just what education is
it that the kids need?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robert T-A</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Brighton SC</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=robert@yinnar.com href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">Robert</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google
docs issue</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>"motherhood statements"?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sorry Royce, but just what are schools there for
if not to provide the education that the kids need? And that then applies to
all resources within the school.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robert Hind (Semi-retired)<BR>Ashwood and
Traralgon<BR><A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Royce Williams" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:Royce.Williams@billanook.vic.edu.au"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Royce.Williams@billanook.vic.edu.au</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List" <</FONT><A href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>itapps@edulists.com.au</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:14
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs
issue</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Ok wearing my eLearning hat I have now been given info that says
that there are educational reasons to investigate google docs<BR>> Thannks
Ros<BR>> I will still ignore motherhood statements about only being there
for students and actually look at them vs the facilities like the LMS we
already have<BR>> I will then change my hats and tell my self to have my
techs look into any security or privacy issues.<BR>> In the case of firefox
my previous decision still stands .Even tho I hate explored there are
sufficient comparability issues with some web pages to not make it the
standard.<BR>> Also there are suffient issues with parent expectations re
microsoft being the only standard I am loathe to change from office.<BR>>
<BR>> Royce Williams<BR>> Sent from my AppleBerry<BR>> <BR>> On
07/12/2008, at 12:25 PM, "Paul Drew" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Hi Ros,<BR>> <BR>>
I’m sorry to hear that you are having a difficult time. I cannot imagine
working in that sort of environment. I think it comes down to a few basics.
Having a supportive Principal and AP is essential to getting anything done.
You also need a technician who is there to help you. We are extremely
fortunate to have both. We have a simply brilliant technician who has changed
the way our intranet operates. Whenever we have an issue he comes up with
ideas, not reasons why it can’t be done. He has a strong programming
background so he can quickly create programs to counter the issues students
throw at us. He is always one step ahead. He has a desire to learn. He is also
very big on open source - so most of what we do costs nothing.<BR>>
<BR>> The other really big plus is to lease all of your PC’s (thanks Roland
for that advice). Now all of our tech’s time is spend improving our network.
We have 100% of computers working. Virtually no time is spent messing with
hardware.<BR>> <BR>> His latest toy is this one. It’s the open
source answer to “netsupportschool” and allows teachers to monitor all
students computers from their computer. It’s fantastic and costs
nothing.<BR>> </FONT><A href="http://italc.sourceforge.net/home.php"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://italc.sourceforge.net/home.php</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> If the technicians are not finding ways to
support teachers then “what are they doing?” It is not for technicians to
question “why” or to have teachers justify the educational merit of something.
A good technician is one who just gets on with it, finds a way – and enjoys
the challenge!<BR>> <BR>> Regards<BR>> <BR>> Paul Drew<BR>> ICT
Co-Ordinator<BR>> Ashwood College<BR>> ph: 9807-1333 Fax:
9888-1441<BR>> email: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:drew.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>><BR>> web: </FONT><A
href="http://www.ashwood.vic.edu.au/"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.ashwood.vic.edu.au/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> <BR>> From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> [mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
Ros Meadows<BR>> Sent: Saturday, 6 December 2008 18:55<BR>> To: Year 12
IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps]
RE: Google docs issue<BR>> <BR>> Thanks Robert,<BR>> <BR>> For
years I jumped up and down, banged my head against a brick wall, screamed
insults, ranted and raved to anyone who would listen, in private (and to my
very understanding hubby) I cried because I knew there was so much more that
could be achieved for the students, if only the powers that be would see my
point of view. I used the line "the tail is wagging the dog" to my
principal early in 2007 when we had a moodle site running but the AV tech
controlled it and would not let anyone create their own courses, and if I
wanted to put a file on my course I would have to take the file to him on a
USB so he could upload it, and also our moodle would only work within
the school, not from home. The principal did not see an issue with this and
refused to change the status quo, so moodle died in my school. But I could do
nothing to make the principal and techs understand that the curriculum and the
needs of the students should come first, not budgets and issues of "locking
the system!<BR>> down". I had no privileges on the network, the
website was </FONT><A href="mailto:cr@p"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>cr@p</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2> (and still is until I get a new
one uploaded), the intranet was </FONT><A href="mailto:cr@p"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>cr@p</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>. I was sick of PT nights where
parents would come to me and complain about the website and the
"extranet/intranet" I fought against "the system", against educache, against
the rip off fees students were charged for internet access, I investigated
alternative ISPs, but who was I?? a mere woman, to undermine the decision
making power of the principal and tech who had the power. My only agenda was
to improve the educational outcomes of our students, yet that seemed to be the
lowest priority on everyone else's list. So I privately paid for a web site
and server so I could deliver an online curriculum to my students, but the
need for them to have internet credit to access the site eventually killed
this idea too. My enthusiasm for "we could do this, we can set this up" etc
was always met with answers of "it can't be done, they would hack into
the!<BR>> system, it would cost more money" etc.... Eventually
in April of thi<BR>> s<BR>> year I broke down completely. Yes, I
went totally ga ga. I lost it completely and have had the year from
hell.<BR>> <BR>> What has kept me going over the last 7 months
was:<BR>> <BR>> 1. the fact that I am totally passionate
about not only ICT, but it's potential to increase the learning outcomes of
all students, in all subjects<BR>> 2. the fact that I was on the
VITTA Committee of Management (if any of you read this thank you guys for your
support), and the opportunity it has given me to meet such wonderful people
who share my passion for ICT education<BR>> 3. People like
Paula, Roland and Maggie who have given me confidence in my ability as an ICT
educator. Thank You<BR>> So when you feel like it is a them (ie techs) vs
"me/us" thing - don't give up, fight back with Robert's words "The curriculum,
the education and needs of the students are paramount"<BR>> <BR>> Don't
let the tail wag the dog!!!!<BR>> <BR>> Ros M<BR>> Bentleigh
SC<BR>> <BR>> Robert wrote:<BR>> Thanks Ros.<BR>> <BR>> The
curriculum, the education and needs of the students are paramount.<BR>>
<BR>> There may well be some things we "cannot do" on a school network. But
the whole technical "tail" needs to put its best efforts into supporting the
curriculum and make sure that the dog wags the tail.<BR>> <BR>> Robert
Hind (Semi-retired)<BR>> Ashwood and Traralgon<BR>> <</FONT><A
href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com>robert@yinnar.com<mailto:robert@yinnar.com"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>mailto:robert@yinnar.com>robert@yinnar.com<mailto:robert@yinnar.com</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>> From: Ros Meadows<</FONT><A
href="mailto:ros.meadows@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:ros.meadows@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List<</FONT><A href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 9:19 AM<BR>> Subject:
Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue<BR>> <BR>> Once again a case
of the tail (ie the techs) wagging the dog (ie the curriculum)!!<BR>>
<BR>> There is NO sound reason why you can't have firefox and google
images, sometimes I wonder if it is just plain laziness, lack of ability or
just a hunger for power on the part of techs.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers<BR>>
Ros<BR>> BentleighSC<BR>> <BR>> <</FONT><A
href="mailto:murch@tpg.com.au>murch@tpg.com.au<mailto:murch@tpg.com.au"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>mailto:murch@tpg.com.au>murch@tpg.com.au<mailto:murch@tpg.com.au</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> We have some issues with google
docs as well. Google images are blocked at our school so this presents
problems with the appearance of google<BR>> <BR>> docs. I also want
firefox on our computer network but was told we cant have it. We are supposed
to be a leading 21st century school!!! I love using<BR>> <BR>> google
docs and use them extensively both with staff and schools in other countries
etc. Means it is difficult to use them with my students. It is most<BR>>
<BR>> annoying.<BR>> <BR>> Anne Mirtschin<BR>> <BR>> Hawkesdale
P12 College<BR>> <BR>>
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