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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill Kerr discusses these issues at <A
href="http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/10/philosophical-principles.html">http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/10/philosophical-principles.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What I like is where he says "<FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>a computer could be an immersive, dynamic medium
for children to explore powerful ideas that are not accessible readily to
children in other ways"</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>MSN and games could be used to explore "powerful
ideas". Some of the existing use probably does, with appropriate guidance from
teachers there is potential to explore a lot of powerful ideas: writing of
diaries and reflection on learning in blogs and other social spaces,
vectors and probability in games etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gant is a useful thing to know but it doesnt strike
me a "powerful idea", when you consider the rate of change of human
knowledge and the 20 billion web pages that Google can access on 1/2 second,
Gant strikes me as more ephemeral knowledge that may be irrelevant by the time
kids reach the workplace</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tony</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=russell.steven.s@edumail.vic.gov.au
href="mailto:russell.steven.s@edumail.vic.gov.au">Russell, Steven S</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=itapps@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 08, 2007 10:08
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT and
alternatives..</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I feel it has not
changed at all over the years. The students and parents of the kids, seem to
think because they sit in front of a computer on MSN and games and Email that
they do know all they need to know about IT, but when you speak to them
regarding Networks, IT in business, Gant and PERTs ect… and there importance,
they seem to answer, WHAT?????I just took a student to the photocopying room
to copy some practice Sacs for me and she commented on the hand written notes
a teacher was photocopying. <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">AND WHO SAYS
WE DON’T NEED MORE IT IN THE
CLASSROOM</SPAN></I>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On
Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Anne-Marie Chase<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 24 September 2007 3:07
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</st1:PersonName>'<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT and
alternatives..</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">Hi<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">We hear all
the time in the media that kids know everything about technology, and people
tend to believe this, in particular parents. So why would students need
to study IT at school? It’s five years now since I was an IT teacher in
the classroom and kids certainly didn’t know everything then (a few did
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=blue size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">), has it
changed? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">For the year
7-10 IT we need to look at the technologies kids use and how they use them and
think about where we as teachers can take this. We must recognize their
informal learning and their existing skills and build on this. We must
consider what skills children don’t ‘pick up’ themselves through their own use
and communication networks and look to fill these gaps. A big thing in
the media at present is the risk children are at from predators while on
line. For both parents and students there is a need for education in how
to protect yourself while on line. These skills go beyond basic
operational skills and require students to be critical users of technology and
evaluate their use. Surely this is a role IT teachers should
play?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">I
haven’t taught the year 12 IT Apps but did teach IP&M, the processes,
development cycles, evaluations etc did way more than develop technical
know-how, it helped students to understand appropriate ICT for specific needs
and contexts and develop discriminating use and understanding of the value of
ICT. Do students and parents understand this is the value in studying
IT?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">I
guess there should come a time where ICT is so well integrated into the
curriculum that ICT as a subject will change. For this to be achieved
other subject teachers will continue to need so much support that IT teachers
will be far from redundant. I recently listened to a presentation by an
Atelierista in a Reggio kindy. A long way from ICT in secondary schools
I know. Yet a lot to be learnt in terms of team teaching, contexts,
learning styles, projects and integrated curriculums. She talked about
her role supporting all the children and teachers in the primary school, she
had to know what all the teachers where doing and support them with materials,
tools, techniques and skills that would enable them to achieve their
goals. All the materials needed to be accessed, tested and
evaluated. The tools, techniques and skills practiced and taught.
This is way more than a classroom teacher could achieve by themselves,
expertise was needed to support the classroom teacher. This was a role I
always tried to offer in schools with the support and provision of IT
expertise. For much of the delivery of ICT this is the way that should
it be done, integrated, but with the support and guidance of an ICT
specialist. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">I
wouldn’t start retraining yet……… <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">I’ve put an
e-mail on this list before so I know many of you are aware of the research I
am currently undertaking as part of a doctoral study. However, I still
need more schools to get involved. Please send me an e-mail if you are
interested <A
href="mailto:chasea01@student.uwa.edu.au">chasea01@student.uwa.edu.au</A>
The study is gathering data on student’s experiences with a whole range
of technologies in and out-of-school, students skill level with technology is
examined. Associations with levels of engagement, students background
and school factors will be investigated. We need to gain an
understanding of what students are doing so we know how best we can support
and teach them……..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">Regards<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'">Anne-Marie<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=blue size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On
Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Kent Beveridge<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 24 September 2007 10:58<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Year 12 IT Apps] IT and
alternatives..</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=idOWAReplyText39673>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Here is another
reason that I, as an IT teacher primarily, am actively expanding my 'official
qualification' base. Having taught both Maths and IT, but not being accredited
to take VCE maths, this year for me, has been one of gaining, or trying to at
least, post grad quals via online study for Maths. The primary reason is now
coming to bear judging by the current thread! It seems that our IT stream is
becoming a dying subject. Personally, I think its because of the over
complexity of its content, and, an over zealous attempt to 'update' the
subject when it has in fact, turned it from a fun subject to more of a dying
dinosaur soon for extinction. </SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Since I still intend to stay in
teaching to see my job days out (about 10-15 more years), I guess retraining
is the best option. Beats the unemployment line! </SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">With a bit of luck, by christmas,
I will be able to offer VCE maths via a national accreditation, unlike my IT,
which seems only recognized in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on">Victoria</st1:State></st1:place>. Those damn politicians and their
VIT rego, only being valid for <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on">Victoria</st1:State></st1:place>. This is the ideal situation where
a national accreditation makes more sense. I for one, am prepared to travel
interstate to teach as I have no attachments, sad but true!</SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am also hoping that my TA04
course(again, nationally accredited) will be finished by year end too.
This opens up other options also. (Hi Allan!).</SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Heres the strange bit, a
girlfriend a few short years back suggested I should finish my maths qual back
then, talk about foresight. Also let an opportunity to do an MIT at <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Melbourne</st1:City></st1:place> uni pass by. In
hindsight, maybe the MIT might not have been really any use
anyway!</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe I'll just be a brickies
labour, reckon I'm too old to start an apprenticeship now! Or even start a
lawn mowing business but unfortunately we need rain for that
one!</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I spose with private tutoring at
least its with people who choose to be there.</SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My prediction..by 2010, IT is
gone! I too am trying the multimedia, programming option but the kids just
dont have the attention span or desire to take it further. The parents I am
getting the impression too, dont see much value in IT at senior levels. I
guess they use it as a time filler pre-VCE years, lucky
us(not).</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Here's the funny part..who do they
alway ask for computing help? Us ITers, yet they are killing us off by their
subject(lack of) selection. Ironically, my school is building 3 new labs
due to open next year. Great for junior and middle school, but the VCE IT
(SD?) may not get much benefit. Maybe i should just shift my focus, like
others, to junior and middle levels as the seniors dont give a
rats!.</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">KB.</SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=idSignature11999>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 42.55pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><B><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic">Kent
Beveridge</SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><I><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic">,</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 42.55pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic">I.T.
co-ordinator</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 42.55pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic">St. Brigids Catholic
Sec. College</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 42.55pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic">Horsham</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT
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<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-STYLE: italic">email.. <A
href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</A></SPAN></FONT></I><FONT
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<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">|<3|\|7
b3\/3r1D93 ? ;-)</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-STYLE: italic">Wishes and Eggs, one
you make and one you break! A bit like
promises.....</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au
on behalf of Roy Smalley<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon 9/24/2007 10:23 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps]
Answers...</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi Geoff,<BR><BR>I think you articulated
nearly all of my concerns with this new course.<BR><BR>One addition I would
make is -<BR><BR>The increased complexity of the Outcomes (SACs).<BR><BR>For
the first time this year both my ITA classes at Chisholm had seven
International students and the remaining students were all 'adults returning
to study'. Most of these students had a great deal of trouble handling SACs
which contained multiple tasks/software. They tended to concentrate on the one
task or software type. In the past students recieved low marks because the
weak students concentrated more on the 'computer' work and less on the
written work. These students are now failing because in addition they
will only concentrate on one of the tasks.<BR><BR>It is my understanding that
the tasks within one outcome must be related to the same problem and done at
the same time. We need to have they flexiblity of breaking the outcomes into
their individual tasks. I appreciate that the VCAA is trying to give students
an appreciation of what it is like to work in the IT industry, etc. But, I
think we are asking to much of our students (especially the less academic and
disadvantaged). Most TAFE and University courses wouldn't try integrating
theory and practice in projects until their final year! We need a course that
caters for a wide range of abilities and IT backgrounds - flexible assessment
is part of the solution!<BR><BR>The other problem with such large assessment
tasks is the SAC resits. When a student fails a 6-8 hour assessment task how
do you provide them with the opportunity to show a satisfactory understaning
of the outcome? It's even worse for international students - the institute
insists that they should have three attempts to pass each outcome with
appropriate tutoring in between!!<BR><BR>The VCAA really needs to rethink
their policy on prerequisites. If students are assumed to have skills and
knowledge from earlier years then this should be stated as a prerequisite or
'strongly recommended' within the study design.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Roy
Smalley<BR>Access Department<BR>Chisholm Institute of TAFE<BR><st1:address
w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street>
684</st1:address><BR>Dandenong VIC 3175<BR><BR>Work: 9238
8496<BR> <BR><BR>>>> "Geoff Moss"
<geoffmoss37@optusnet.com.au> Friday, 21 September 2007 20:27:36
>>><BR>Hi Maree<BR><BR>This has been a real problem I have faced at
RMIT this year. Most of our<BR>students had not done IT lower in the
education system (a large majority of<BR>our Year 12 students are not from
RMIT Year 11 and many are mature<BR>students).<BR><BR>As a result of the new
study design these students have been severely<BR>disadvantaged, having to
learn each of the three applications before being<BR>able to do each
SAC.<BR><BR>While the intent of the course designers has no doubt been
honourable and<BR>directed at improving the study, little thought has been
done for students<BR>who fall into our situation.<BR><BR>We cannot prevent
students selecting the study as they quite correctly state<BR>that the study
has no prerequisites (SD p.8). But did they anticipate<BR>students would
undertake the study without skills and knowledge in a<BR>database software
aplication, webdesign software and in Excel.? I strongly<BR>suggest they
did not.<BR><BR>In previous years we have coped in teaching two aplications -
web-design<BR>software and Excel - but the addition of a database has really
added huge<BR>problems to the task for our students.<BR><BR>I wrote earlier
this year on the list about this problem but received no<BR>response.<BR><BR>I
would like to know what other teachers, the study writers and Paula
could<BR>suggest we do in this situation, knowing that these students are
also<BR>competing with others in the state who have good skills in all three
of<BR>these software applications.<BR><BR>Where my students are so poorly done
by is that the time we spend on<BR>teaching the software applications has to
come from the time I would like to<BR>teach them theory. This is what we
will be doing during the vacation and in<BR>the few weeks of Term 3, when
other students will have the luxury of<BR>revising the study.<BR><BR>I know
there is no solution to this problem and that my students are really<BR>behind
a very large eight-ball.<BR><BR>The reality is that there is no longer a level
playing field in ITA any<BR>more. Requiring students to learn three
software applications, complete 4<BR>SACs (three of which are software based)
and then have them to learn the<BR>theory of the study design is a tall ask
for any student.<BR><BR>My winge is for the plight of my students and any
other students who are in<BR>a similar plight. No-one is going to fight
for them at this stage.<BR><BR>Geoff Moss<BR>RMIT<BR><BR><BR>----- Original
Message -----<BR>From: "Maree Duivenvoorden"
<MareeD@toorakc.vic.edu.au><BR>To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</st1:PersonName>"<BR><itapps@edulists.com.au><BR>Sent: Friday,
September 21, 2007 3:43 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps]
Answers...<BR><BR><BR>> ITA is not running here at <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Toorak</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> either - which is very<BR>>
disappointing for me, as we have also had good results. The
students<BR>> below Year 12 have not had any 'core' IT classes and when
this is the<BR>> case, it is difficult for them to pick it up in Year 12
and learn the<BR>> entire study. They are choosing subjects that have
been given a 'pathway'<BR>> through the school, and that frankly makes it
easier on them.<BR>><BR>> Maree Duivenvoorden<BR>> <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Toorak</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><BR>> Old Mornington
Road<BR>> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Mount</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Eliza</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> Vic
3930<BR>><BR>> 03 97887252<BR>>
mareed@toorakc.vic.edu.au<BR>><BR>>
________________________________<BR>><BR>> From:
itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Diane Peat<BR>> Sent: Fri
9/21/2007 3:14 PM<BR>> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Year 12 IT
Applications Teachers' Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR>> Subject: RE:
[Year 12 IT Apps] Answers...<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ITA is not
running here at Firbank next year, despite good results over<BR>>
the<BR>> years. Very sad (and a very sore point with me).<BR>><BR>>
By the way Brendyn ... I think you forgot to attach
it.<BR>><BR>><BR>> Diane Peat<BR>> <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Firbank</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Grammar School</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><BR>> <st1:place
w:st="on">BRIGHTON</st1:place><BR>> Telephone 9591 5188<BR>>
Email dpeat@firbank.vic.edu.au<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From:
itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au<BR>> [<A
href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>]On
Behalf Of Brendyn Hancock<BR>> Sent: Friday, 21 September 2007 1:41
PM<BR>> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR>> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps]
Answers...<BR>><BR>> All<BR>><BR>> Here is my suggested answers
for the Superior Auto SAC.<BR>><BR>> I have not completed the last
few.<BR>><BR>> I have written my answers in teacher form not full
students ans form.<BR>><BR>> Maybe it will help others.<BR>><BR>>
Have a happy hols everyone.<BR>><BR>> We going through subject selection
at the moment. I had 21 students<BR>> this year. Next year I think I will
be teaching SOSE. Struggling to get<BR>> the kids for ITA 2008.<BR>>
What are others finding?<BR>><BR>> Regards<BR>><BR>>
Brendyn<BR>><BR>> Brendyn Hancock<BR>> IT Manager<BR>>
bhancock@nagle.sale.catholic.edu.au<BR>>
---------------------------------------------<BR>> <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Nagle</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><BR>> 5152 6122<BR>>
Bairnsdale VIC 3875<BR>><BR>><BR>>
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