<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>nicely put stephen, I couldnt agree more</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>andrew grimshaw</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>colac college</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEF=
T: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From=
:</B>
<A title=3Ddigby.stephen.p@edumail.vic.gov.au
href=3D"mailto:digby.stephen.p@edumail.vic.gov.au">Stephen Digby</A> </DIV=
>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dipm@edulists.com.au=
href=3D"mailto:ipm@edulists.com.au">'Year 12 Information Technology Proces=
sing
and ManagementTeachers'Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 15, 2006=
7:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Year 12 IPM] music
copyright</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006>As Dicken's n=
oted, the
law has always been an ass.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006>When you sit=
down to
Monopoly you sometimes renegotiate a rule or two by mutual agreement, but=
most
of the rules are set by the manufacturer.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006>Society is a=
bit like
that - we didn't get to make the vast complex web of rules that govern us,=
we
just get to tinker democratically with a few things at the edge while the=
manufacturers continue to make most of the important decisions. Most=
people just ignore the rules that they do not agree with and hope that the=
y do
not get caught..... unfortunately, as with drug laws, if there is a=
significant minority that does not agree with the law, these people begin=
to
collect to gether and separate from the mainstream in many other ways crea=
ting
what we often call a "subculture". Thus the drug subcultures, the pe=
er
to peer subcultures etc. that danger for society is that many other=
influences and opportunists also work within these subcultures and the
outcomes are often unpredictable and socially divisive and damaging(e.g.
crime, lack of compliance and trust of police etc, lack of regard for othe=
r
laws etc).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006>Thus the need=
to work
to oppose laws that are flouted openly (and has socially accepted) OR to
change the social acceptance (as has been done in my generation with drink=
driving).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006>I think that=
the
possibly of changing the social acceptance of music sharing is very
unlikely..... sounds more like alcohol prohibition than drink
driving.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006></SPAN> =
</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Stephen
Digby, Learning Technology Manager <BR><A
href=3D"mailto:admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au">mailto:admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au=
</A>
<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT></FONT><BR>Cheltenham Secondary College <A
href=3D"http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au/">www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au</A> Ph: 6=
13 955
55 955 Fx: 9555
8617<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>=
The
only way to have a friend is to be one.<BR>Ralph Waldo Emerson</SPAN></DIV=
>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D941091520-14112006><FONT face=3D=
Arial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ipm-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:ipm-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Roland
Gesthuizen<BR><B>Sent:</B> 14 November 2006 11:23 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Year 12=
Information Technology Processing and Management Teachers'Mailing
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 IPM] music copyright<BR></FONT><BR></=
DIV>
<DIV></DIV><A
href=3D"http://www.theage.com.au/news/phones--pdas/soon-recordings-will-be=
-a-crime/2006/11/14/1163266532880.html">An
Age newspaper report </A>has briefly discussed some of the changes to
Australian copyright legislation. Police would be able to go to a market,=
find
people selling pirated CDs and issue fines on the spot. Internet
Industry Association has stated that these changes have gone too far and
activities that could attract fines include playing a radio in the park or=
even recording a group of students singing a song then sharing it online.=
It
is an interesting issue that can be discussed in the classroom.<BR><BR>You=
need written permission from <A
href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner">Time Warner</A> to sing=
Happy
Birthday, the copyright will <A
href=3D"http://plakboek.livejournal.com/55478.html">expire in 2030</A> and=
if I
am correct, there will be no fair-use provisions in the legislation as it=
is
currently drafted. Singing Happy Birthday at a restaurant, a party or any=
gathering is considered to be a public performance, even humming the=
tune
will become a criminal offense.<BR><BR>When you sing Happy Birthday, close=
all
the curtains and darken the room except perhaps for the light from a candl=
e.
Wear masks and hats to protect your identity, perhaps helium to disguise y=
our
voice. Making humorous additions and satirical modifications to the lyrics=
may
provide further legal protection from prosecution. Of course it is best to=
not
take the risk and enforce the singing public domain folk tunes and birthda=
y
melodies such as <A href=3D"http://ingeb.org/">German volksleiders, hymns=
or
gospel</A> in your classrooms. <BR><BR>Perhaps it would be best if we all=
agree kept our mouths firmly shut? <BR><BR>Regards Roland<BR><BR>PS: My
saxophone playing isnt great so perhaps nobody would recognise the tune ..=
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote>On 05/11/06, <B class=3Dgmail_sendername>Je=
ffrey
Lynn</B> <<A
href=3D"mailto:jslynn@optusnet.com.au">jslynn@optusnet.com.au</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(20=
4,204,204) 1px solid">The
copyright issue is legally quite clear: you can make one copy of
a<BR>computer program disk (CD or DVD) for backup purposes but it is ill=
egal
to<BR>copy music CDs or DVDs for any purpose. Technically, the copies of=
CDs
I <BR>have in my car so I don't damage or lose my originals are quite
illegal. As<BR>I have discussed with my students (and as Mark says), the=
re
is no logic to<BR>this, just law. However, the chances of my being
prosecuted for having such <BR>copies are fairly remote - as the copies=
are
not for resale, redistribution,<BR>or profit, the law is not too interes=
ted
in wasting time and money<BR>prosecuting. The real villains they are aft=
er
are pirates churning out <BR>illegal copies for sale and profit. That do=
es
not alter the fact that my<BR>copies ARE illegal!<BR><BR>Note too that t=
he
copyright laws are in the process of being changed and are<BR>expected t=
o be
enacted in 2007.<BR><BR>Jeff Lynn,<BR>Yeshivah/Beth Rivkah
Colleges<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href=3D"mailto:ipm-bounces@edulists.com.au">ipm-bounces@edulists.com.au<=
/A>
[mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:ipm-bounces@edulists.com.au">
ipm-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>] On<BR>Behalf Of Mark Kelly<BR>Sent: Sun=
day,
5 November 2006 17:45<BR>To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing a=
nd
Management<BR>Teachers'Mailing List<BR>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] music=
copyright <BR><BR>Nick Axaris wrote:<BR>> I was always under the
understanding that you can make a copy of a music<BR>CD for backup purpo=
ses
and not to share or sell it.<BR>> There should be no issue copying a=
song
for the purpose of a presentation <BR>as the student is not profiting or=
sharing that song with anyone else.<BR>> When the presentation is ove=
r
then the network manager can delete it from<BR>the network.<BR>> Whil=
st
on the network just ensure that it is only accesible by the
<BR>student.<BR><BR>What is legal and what is logical is - as usual -
mutually exclusive.<BR><BR>--<BR>Mark Kelly<BR>McKinnon Secondary
College<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href=3D"http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ=
,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>IPM Mailing List kindly supported
by<BR><A href=3D"http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au<=
/A> -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <BR>and<BR><A
href=3D"http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> =
-
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers<BR>Association
Inc<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href=3D"http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ=
,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<BR>IPM Mailing List kindly supported
by<BR><A href=3D"http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au<=
/A> -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
href=3D"http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> =
-
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association
Inc<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>Roland Gesthuizen=
- ICT
Coordinator - Westall Secondary College <BR><A
href=3D"http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au">http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au</=
A><BR><BR>"Never
doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the=
world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead
_______________________________________________ <BR><A
href=3D"http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au </A>- FAQ,=
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe <BR>IPM Mailing List kindly supported by=
<BR><A href=3D"http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au </A>=
-
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
href=3D"http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au </A>- VITTA Victo=
rian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
<P></P>
<P><B>Important - </B>This email and any attachments may be confidential.=
If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening=
or
using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any lo=
ss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or n=
ot,
resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,=
and
not necessarily those of the Department of Education &
Training._______________________________________________ <BR><A
href=3D'ttp://www.edulists.com.au"'>http://www.edulists.com.au </A>- FAQ,=
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe <BR>IPM Mailing List kindly supported by=
<BR><A href=3D'ttp://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au"'>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au </A>=
-
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
href=3D'ttp://www.vitta.org.au"'>http://www.vitta.org.au </A>- VITTA Victo=
rian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc </P></BLOCKQUOTE><p></p><p=
><b>Important - </b>This email and any attachments may be confidential. If r=
eceived in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or=
using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any los=
s, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or=
not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files ou=
r liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any represen=
tations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not ne=
cessarily those of the Department of Education & Training.</BODY></HTML>