[Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

Fri Sep 8 10:57:52 EST 2006

We have a 4 period day (77min) and it works great.

Peter Collingwood

St.Peter's College

Cranbourne-Frankston Road

Cranbourne, Vic 3977

pco at stpeters.vic.edu.au

Phone (03)59966733

Fax (03) 59968277

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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Scott [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark
Scott
Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2006 8:39 PM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management Teachers'
Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

Come on people respond.

There must be lots of you out there with a four period day.

Talk to us.

Mark Scott

  _____  

From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Robert Timmer-Arends
Sent: Thu 7/09/2006 8:13 PM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

Yes I agree that longer periods offer this potential but for some subjects
at least there are perceived shortcomings of longer and hence fewer classes
in the week. As Stephen implied, we have to keep an eye out for fadism -
sadly one of the biggest features of teaching. A couple of years ago our
school was considering going to 75 min periods. I carried out an extensive
internet search looking for any research into the benefits or otherwise of
longer session times. I found nothing. This either means that I'm a lousy
searcher or that any research that has been done has not been published on
the web. Either way, changing programs on the strength of opinion only or
the view that 'we have to change something' should no longer be accepted in
teaching. At the risk of sounding cliched, surely we should be basing our
programs and their structure on the basis of evidence, and where there is
none, shouldn't we be putting in place a well defined evaluation regime
(just like we teach 'em to do in IPM) and time frame within which the
experiment is to operate? Another problem in teaching is that experiments
are never acknowledged to be such and they tend to become 'the way we do
things' until somebody with a 'new' idea comes along.

Regards
Robert T-A
Brighton SC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Bell" <bell.cameron.p at edumail.vic.gov.au>
To: "Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management Teachers'
Mailing List" <ipm at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

> Longer periods give you the opportunity to use several "highly directed"
> learning activities OR the opportunity to engage in a longer activity if
> it is needed, something you are restricted in if constrained to a 45 min
> period. Longer periods give you the flexibility and choice. I found it a
> nightmare as I can't fit in the introduction (and roll), the activity
> then a conclusion into 45 minutes. Too rushed. It is about "one size
> fits all", the more time you have to work through an activity, allows
> students of all abilities to achieve something, rather than only having
> enough time for those who can quickly comprehend the concepts and are
> organised enough to complete the activity. Those students, I have found
> then have the opportunity to be extended. In science, I have those
> students start to think about errors, etc while the slower students have
> the time to actually achieve something. All too often those students
> will procrastinate, knowing that if they can lie low for a couple of
> minutes they can get away without learning something.
>
> >A rather immature response, I would suggest.
> Would you? On what basis is this "immature"?
> We are trying to shift the focus from the teacher, to more group work
> and self-directed activities. Is this a "fad" simply because it is
> different? At what point do you consider a "fad" - a subconscious
> inference that anything new is just a passing phase to be tolerated,
> become legitimate?
> My personal preference is for tables that can be arranged in rows if
> needed, however, there is a range of furniture now available that make
> for different, stimulating learning spaces that students and teachers do
> appreciate. if the furniture cannot be arranged in rows so be it!
> (Had to laugh, at the end of last session a teacher came in and scowled
> - "Why are the tables in groups again?")
>
> I think that while the forums are a good place to exchange ideas,
> remember that there are not always right and wrong solutions when the
> individual schools context is generally missing from the discussion.
> Each school has their own issues, ideas and strategies. I am putting
> forward our solutions and ideas, you yours. There really is no call for
> labelling or put downs based on what you perceive to be the answer as it
> applies to your situation not ours. Schools would not adopt "fads",
> "fashions" or longer period days without careful thought and looking at
> the educational rationale and making a careful decision, but sometimes,
> you just have to jump!
>
> cheers
> Cameron
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:45 +1000, Stephen Digby wrote:
> > Such certainty !! Such passionate extremes !! Who are you ?
> > 6 sessions a "nightmare".  Some have the same description of 4, 3, 2, 1
(I
> > even remember 8 session days !!!)
> > The appropriateness of session length is a function of teaching goals,
> > teaching methods and student characteristics.  As so many say these days
> > "there is no one right answer".  It depends.  Increasing proportion of
> > students come from families without a "learning culture" i.e. little
> > experience of success through persistence; a feedback cycle of
shortening
> > attention and commitment fed by a belief that lowered expectations are
> > preferable to experiences of failure;  etc; etc etc.  These students do
not
> > thrive in school settings which are designed for self-motivated students
who
> > are used to success through perseverance.  They actually do far better
with
> > short sessions of highly directed learning which gradually expands the
scope
> > for autonomy within careful limits.
> > The "one size fits all" confidence is what often amazes me.
> >
> > Chairs in rows - "so wrong".  The subconscious inference that there is a
> > moral failure in not adopting the latest teaching fad.  Flexible tables
> > would not do, "we are now looking at that furniture that can't be set up
in
> > rows".  A rather immature response, I would suggest.
> > I would suggest that the most flexible classroom arrangements have all
> > tables the same (i.e. no teacher's table), this means that there is no
> > presumption that the teacher will be apart from the students or "out the
> > front" - but without prohibiting this arrangement.
> >
> > School plant, equipment and staff should be built for maximum
flexibility,
> > variety, creativity and responsiveness.  Let's not move from one
> > straitjacket into another - even if it is more fashionable !
> >
> >
============================================================================
> > ==========
> > Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> > mailto:admin at cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> > Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au Ph: 613 955 55 955
Fx:
> > 9555 8617
> >
============================================================================
> > ==========
> >
> >
> > The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On
> > Behalf Of Bell, Cameron P
> > Sent: 06 September 2006 02:46 PM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'MailingList
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> > Yep! We are moving to a 4 period day next year. My last two schools were
> > 4 period days and moving back to 6 was a nightmare!  Can't wait for
that.
> >
> > We do battle with the make-up of the rooms. We are now looking at that
> > furniture that can't be set up in rows. I can't stand walking into a
room
> > where all the desks are in rows facing the teacher, it is so wrong.
> > Needless to say any attempts to create a more group orientated layout
> > quickly gets set back into rows.  :(
> >
> > We still need a teacher's desk to put the teacher's laptop on though.
> > (We do our rolls via the laptops. That change went very smoothly!  :)
> > )
> >
> > We would not be able to support a student owned laptop program just yet.
> > School demographics are against that.
> >
> > I agree with a lot of what you suggest but I need a whiteboard. I prefer
a
> > whiteboard that I can project stuff onto and be able to write on at the
same
> > time. Can't do that with screens.
> >
> > Spare a though for my next issue. A school-wide switch over to Open
Source
> > Software. That will be a fun one!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Mark Scott
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:26 PM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'MailingList
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> > Some strategies:
> >
> > 1. Introduce a four period day. Most teachers when faced with longer
periods
> > will adapt to the new circumstances. They will find very quickly that
they
> > cannot chalk and talk their way through an 80 minute lesson.
> >
> > 2. Introduce a student owned laptop program. Give teachers a laptop each
but
> > ban their use within classrooms.
> >
> > 3. Make technology a part of every report that goes home to parents.
> >
> > 4. Remove the whiteboards from all the classrooms. I have never been
able to
> > convince a Principal of the validity of this but just imagine...
> >
> > 5. Remove the teachers' desks from all of the classrooms. Make them get
up
> > and wander around the classroom.
> >
> > 6. Stop making square classrooms designed to fit 25 students into a box.
> >
> > Mark Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Bell, Cameron P
> > Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:44 PM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'MailingList
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> > *snipped*
> >
> > So that change can happen, how do you encourage "recalcitrant" (for want
of
> > a better word) teachers to accept that we must constantly change and
adapt
> > to new circumstances so that it is not seen as a burden, but an
opportunity?
> > Would love any additional strategies people can suggest.
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Murray O.
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:17 AM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'MailingList
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> > Mark
> > I disagree with you.
> > Based on my experience, I think teachers are highly adaptable to change
be
> > planned or unplanned. That being said I too get frustrated at trying to
> > facilitate change in schools.
> >
> > Can you tell of other professions or groups of adults that change
quickly?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Oliver Murray
> > Web Developer
> > Westbourne Grammar School
> > www.westbournegrammar.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Mark Scott
> > Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 10:30 AM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'MailingList
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> > We are talking teachers.
> >
> > This is a species renown for not changing quickly.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of jturner
> > Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 10:11 AM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> >
> > The big mistake people continue to make is seeing technology as the
catalyst
> > for sustainable change in education when it should be people.
> > Technology is invaluable whatever its peculiarities but learner centered
> > means people at the center.
> > John
> >
> > On 05/09/2006, at 3:41 PM, Mark Scott wrote:
> >
> > > I have said it before and no doubt I will say it again.
> > >
> > > The biggest advantage in introducing student owned laptops into a
> > > school is that it can be used as a catalyst for change.
> > >
> > > You can start to talk about learner centred classrooms instead of
> > > teacher centred ones.
> > >
> > > ... and of course this is not the only strategy you try, just one of
> > > several.
> > >
> > > Mark Scott
> > > Luther College
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > On Behalf Of Michael Walker
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 3:06 PM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > >>>> Laurie Savage<sav at pvgc.vic.edu.au> 09/05/06 12:07pm >>>
> > >>> And now we have a generation of people who cannot do the simplest
> > > calculation in their head.
> > >
> > > Laurie
> > >
> > >>>> Mark Scott wrote:
> > >> They said the same thing about calculators back in the early
> > > seventies.
> > >
> > > Ah generalisations, you've got to love them... 8^)
> > >
> > > I would argue that with the use of calculators, you don't need to do
> > > the simplest calculation in your head. However, it requires a
> > > different skill set to check that your calculator is giving you an
> > > accurate answer rather than no skill set at all, hence the higher
> > > emphasis on estimation that occurs in teaching maths now than when I
> > > was at school. Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis...
> > >
> > > I would also argue that those kids I know of who have trouble
> > > performing the simplest calculation aren't all that flash on using the
> > > calculator either. I would suggest that a greater cause is lack of
> > > interest for whatever reason from boring teaching methods in previous
> > > years showing the kids how irrelevant maths is to lack of support at
> > > home for doing homework and school in general. Now there's a can of
> > > worms or three...
> > >
> > > Although I don't think laptops are a cure for all ills, I suspect that
> > > under some circumstances they can be a useful tool in the hands of the
> > > right practitioner, and in others are a complete waste of time when
> > the
> > > circumstances of the school and students are taken into account. To
> > > give some examples, I am sure that in some laptop schools, the laptops
> > > are an expensive pseudo notebook / electronic textbook whose primary
> > advantage
> > > is larger capacity, neater handwriting (typing vs scribble) and better
> > > searchability. Obviously Mark's school is not one of them based on his
> > > response. That's not to say schools with poor use of laptops don't
> > > exist, and anecdotal evidence would suggest that they do. On the other
> > > hand, the same applies to schools who have changed their teaching to
> > > make good use of new teaching methods available from every student
> > > having the tool and having been taught a proficiency with it.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I would suspect that there would be scenarios where
> >
> > > a
> > > $2000 laptop would be a poor use of family or school resources for the
> > > perceived benefits compared to alternatives. Would a struggling
> > western
> > > suburbs secondary school be able to justify making every student buy a
> > > laptop, even on finance? Would alternative approaches such as good use
> > > of Moodle with external access be more appropriate in terms of bang
> > for
> > > buck?
> > >
> > > I would suggest that neither black nor white are correct and that
> > > although there is a place for laptops in schools, it would be silly to
> > > try and suggest that it would be desirable for every school in the
> > > state and every student in the state to have a laptop and be in a
> > > laptop program. Or to suggest that every maths student in the state
> > > can't do simple calculations in their head...
> > >
> > >
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> > Head of Information Technology / VCE Coordinator Presbyterian Ladies'
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> >
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