[Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

Fri Sep 8 10:38:56 EST 2006

hi folks,
couldn't help but join in this one.
we changed to 77/78 minute periods four years ago. at that time we had 7 periods per day and the student movement and teacher preparation per day was just over the top. i thought it a great idea when we changed to the new longer periods. we did some research, visited some schools etc.

be careful

there are many problems associated with longer periods.
1. with a 77 minute period we see the year 8 kids once a week. this means you have to try to get over two or three different concepts during the one period and if a student is away or you are away or there is a sports day etc. then you don't see the kids for two weeks.
2. the problem above is even worse with VCE. i see my VCE kids twice one week and three times the next. trying to get through a course is a real problem. the lack of contact time means you set homework and if you want the students to have a chance to ask you about it (after attempting it) you often have to make it due in two weeks time. you can't set little task to be completed for the next period.
3. if you get an extra it is a quarter of your day gone. if there is no work set you are trying to keep the kids entertained for 77 minutes. 
4. if a teacher or two are away it is quite possible for students to spend half their day (or more) with replacement teachers. 
5. it is not easy fitting four periods into a day and alowing reasonable time for recess and lunch. you either have lunch about 12:00 or 1:20
6. try forming a partnership with a school (working 6 x 50s) and having SACs on at the same time when your contact time is 5 times a fortnight. 
7. from a timetable point of view it is quite difficult to get any sort of reasonable spread of classes over a week when you don't have many blocks to play with.

there are benefits however.
1. certainly the movement of students is reduced radically reduced.
2. teachers have only four periods to prepare for a day (albeit longer periods which require a significant change in teaching style for many teachers - not necessarily a bad thing)
3. in practical periods you have time to present some theory and then back it up with prac work.
4. if a teacher is away the daily organiser has four classe to cover rather than 6 (or 7 as we had)

personally i would be very happy to go to 5 periods a day

cheers

David Irving
ICT Coordinator

Monivae College
Ballarat Rd., 
Hamilton,
Victoria, 3300
P.O. Box 423
Phone:55721244

________________________________

From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Cameron Bell
Sent: Fri 8/09/2006 8:19 AM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management Teachers'MailingList
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage

It would be interesting to hear from Croydon Secondary who made the
change this year. We asked them to talk to our staff about it and the
report was an overwhelming endorsement of the longer periods. It was
also interesting to note they mentioned the change to the whole-school
dynamics with less student movement.

There is very little research available (Did you use
Google-Academic?)and those papers we did find were split, with a slight
favouring of longer periods. Many of the papers were American and they
were researching the concept of blocking subjects rather than period
length.
I taught the 4 period day at my last two schools, so I am talking from
my personal experience. One school had 90min periods - too long, but it
was for seniors only - (even they had trouble concentrating for that
length of time), the other 72 minutes which I felt was just right (the
Goldilocks principle) for IT and Science.

On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 20:39 +1000, Mark Scott wrote:
> Come on people respond.
> 
> There must be lots of you out there with a four period day.
> 
> Talk to us.
> 
> Mark Scott
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Robert Timmer-Arends
> Sent: Thu 7/09/2006 8:13 PM
> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
>
>
> Yes I agree that longer periods offer this potential but for some
> subjects
> at least there are perceived shortcomings of longer and hence fewer
> classes
> in the week. As Stephen implied, we have to keep an eye out for fadism
> -
> sadly one of the biggest features of teaching. A couple of years ago
> our
> school was considering going to 75 min periods. I carried out an
> extensive
> internet search looking for any research into the benefits or
> otherwise of
> longer session times. I found nothing. This either means that I'm a
> lousy
> searcher or that any research that has been done has not been
> published on
> the web. Either way, changing programs on the strength of opinion only
> or
> the view that 'we have to change something' should no longer be
> accepted in
> teaching. At the risk of sounding cliched, surely we should be basing
> our
> programs and their structure on the basis of evidence, and where there
> is
> none, shouldn't we be putting in place a well defined evaluation
> regime
> (just like we teach 'em to do in IPM) and time frame within which the
> experiment is to operate? Another problem in teaching is that
> experiments
> are never acknowledged to be such and they tend to become 'the way we
> do
> things' until somebody with a 'new' idea comes along.
>
> Regards
> Robert T-A
> Brighton SC
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron Bell" <bell.cameron.p at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> To: "Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> Teachers'
> Mailing List" <ipm at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:12 AM
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
>
>
> > Longer periods give you the opportunity to use several "highly
> directed"
> > learning activities OR the opportunity to engage in a longer
> activity if
> > it is needed, something you are restricted in if constrained to a 45
> min
> > period. Longer periods give you the flexibility and choice. I found
> it a
> > nightmare as I can't fit in the introduction (and roll), the
> activity
> > then a conclusion into 45 minutes. Too rushed. It is about "one size
> > fits all", the more time you have to work through an activity,
> allows
> > students of all abilities to achieve something, rather than only
> having
> > enough time for those who can quickly comprehend the concepts and
> are
> > organised enough to complete the activity. Those students, I have
> found
> > then have the opportunity to be extended. In science, I have those
> > students start to think about errors, etc while the slower students
> have
> > the time to actually achieve something. All too often those students
> > will procrastinate, knowing that if they can lie low for a couple of
> > minutes they can get away without learning something.
> >
> > >A rather immature response, I would suggest.
> > Would you? On what basis is this "immature"?
> > We are trying to shift the focus from the teacher, to more group
> work
> > and self-directed activities. Is this a "fad" simply because it is
> > different? At what point do you consider a "fad" - a subconscious
> > inference that anything new is just a passing phase to be tolerated,
> > become legitimate?
> > My personal preference is for tables that can be arranged in rows if
> > needed, however, there is a range of furniture now available that
> make
> > for different, stimulating learning spaces that students and
> teachers do
> > appreciate. if the furniture cannot be arranged in rows so be it!
> > (Had to laugh, at the end of last session a teacher came in and
> scowled
> > - "Why are the tables in groups again?")
> >
> > I think that while the forums are a good place to exchange ideas,
> > remember that there are not always right and wrong solutions when
> the
> > individual schools context is generally missing from the discussion.
> > Each school has their own issues, ideas and strategies. I am putting
> > forward our solutions and ideas, you yours. There really is no call
> for
> > labelling or put downs based on what you perceive to be the answer
> as it
> > applies to your situation not ours. Schools would not adopt "fads",
> > "fashions" or longer period days without careful thought and looking
> at
> > the educational rationale and making a careful decision, but
> sometimes,
> > you just have to jump!
> >
> > cheers
> > Cameron
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:45 +1000, Stephen Digby wrote:
> > > Such certainty !! Such passionate extremes !! Who are you ?
> > > 6 sessions a "nightmare".  Some have the same description of 4, 3,
> 2, 1
> (I
> > > even remember 8 session days !!!)
> > > The appropriateness of session length is a function of teaching
> goals,
> > > teaching methods and student characteristics.  As so many say
> these days
> > > "there is no one right answer".  It depends.  Increasing
> proportion of
> > > students come from families without a "learning culture" i.e.
> little
> > > experience of success through persistence; a feedback cycle of
> shortening
> > > attention and commitment fed by a belief that lowered expectations
> are
> > > preferable to experiences of failure;  etc; etc etc.  These
> students do
> not
> > > thrive in school settings which are designed for self-motivated
> students
> who
> > > are used to success through perseverance.  They actually do far
> better
> with
> > > short sessions of highly directed learning which gradually expands
> the
> scope
> > > for autonomy within careful limits.
> > > The "one size fits all" confidence is what often amazes me.
> > >
> > > Chairs in rows - "so wrong".  The subconscious inference that
> there is a
> > > moral failure in not adopting the latest teaching fad.  Flexible
> tables
> > > would not do, "we are now looking at that furniture that can't be
> set up
> in
> > > rows".  A rather immature response, I would suggest.
> > > I would suggest that the most flexible classroom arrangements have
> all
> > > tables the same (i.e. no teacher's table), this means that there
> is no
> > > presumption that the teacher will be apart from the students or
> "out the
> > > front" - but without prohibiting this arrangement.
> > >
> > > School plant, equipment and staff should be built for maximum
> flexibility,
> > > variety, creativity and responsiveness.  Let's not move from one
> > > straitjacket into another - even if it is more fashionable !
> > >
> > >
> ============================================================================
> > > ==========
> > > Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> > > mailto:admin at cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> > > Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au Ph: 613 955
> 55 955
> Fx:
> > > 9555 8617
> > >
> ============================================================================
> > > ==========
> > >
> > >
> > > The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Bell, Cameron P
> > > Sent: 06 September 2006 02:46 PM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'MailingList
> > > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > > Yep! We are moving to a 4 period day next year. My last two
> schools were
> > > 4 period days and moving back to 6 was a nightmare!  Can't wait
> for
> that.
> > >
> > > We do battle with the make-up of the rooms. We are now looking at
> that
> > > furniture that can't be set up in rows. I can't stand walking into
> a
> room
> > > where all the desks are in rows facing the teacher, it is so
> wrong.
> > > Needless to say any attempts to create a more group orientated
> layout
> > > quickly gets set back into rows.  :(
> > >
> > > We still need a teacher's desk to put the teacher's laptop on
> though.
> > > (We do our rolls via the laptops. That change went very
> smoothly!  :)
> > > )
> > >
> > > We would not be able to support a student owned laptop program
> just yet.
> > > School demographics are against that.
> > >
> > > I agree with a lot of what you suggest but I need a whiteboard. I
> prefer
> a
> > > whiteboard that I can project stuff onto and be able to write on
> at the
> same
> > > time. Can't do that with screens.
> > >
> > > Spare a though for my next issue. A school-wide switch over to
> Open
> Source
> > > Software. That will be a fun one!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > On Behalf Of Mark Scott
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:26 PM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'MailingList
> > > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > > Cameron
> > >
> > > Some strategies:
> > >
> > > 1. Introduce a four period day. Most teachers when faced with
> longer
> periods
> > > will adapt to the new circumstances. They will find very quickly
> that
> they
> > > cannot chalk and talk their way through an 80 minute lesson.
> > >
> > > 2. Introduce a student owned laptop program. Give teachers a
> laptop each
> but
> > > ban their use within classrooms.
> > >
> > > 3. Make technology a part of every report that goes home to
> parents.
> > >
> > > 4. Remove the whiteboards from all the classrooms. I have never
> been
> able to
> > > convince a Principal of the validity of this but just imagine...
> > >
> > > 5. Remove the teachers' desks from all of the classrooms. Make
> them get
> up
> > > and wander around the classroom.
> > >
> > > 6. Stop making square classrooms designed to fit 25 students into
> a box.
> > >
> > > Mark Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > On Behalf Of Bell, Cameron P
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:44 PM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'MailingList
> > > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > > *snipped*
> > >
> > > So that change can happen, how do you encourage
> "recalcitrant" (for want
> of
> > > a better word) teachers to accept that we must constantly change
> and
> adapt
> > > to new circumstances so that it is not seen as a burden, but an
> opportunity?
> > > Would love any additional strategies people can suggest.
> > >
> > > Cameron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > On Behalf Of Murray O.
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:17 AM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'MailingList
> > > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > > Mark
> > > I disagree with you.
> > > Based on my experience, I think teachers are highly adaptable to
> change
> be
> > > planned or unplanned. That being said I too get frustrated at
> trying to
> > > facilitate change in schools.
> > >
> > > Can you tell of other professions or groups of adults that change
> quickly?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Oliver Murray
> > > Web Developer
> > > Westbourne Grammar School
> > > www.westbournegrammar.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > On Behalf Of Mark Scott
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 10:30 AM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'MailingList
> > > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > > We are talking teachers.
> > >
> > > This is a species renown for not changing quickly.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > On Behalf Of jturner
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 10:11 AM
> > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > Teachers'Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > >
> > > The big mistake people continue to make is seeing technology as
> the
> catalyst
> > > for sustainable change in education when it should be people.
> > > Technology is invaluable whatever its peculiarities but learner
> centered
> > > means people at the center.
> > > John
> > >
> > > On 05/09/2006, at 3:41 PM, Mark Scott wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have said it before and no doubt I will say it again.
> > > >
> > > > The biggest advantage in introducing student owned laptops into
> a
> > > > school is that it can be used as a catalyst for change.
> > > >
> > > > You can start to talk about learner centred classrooms instead
> of
> > > > teacher centred ones.
> > > >
> > > > ... and of course this is not the only strategy you try, just
> one of
> > > > several.
> > > >
> > > > Mark Scott
> > > > Luther College
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > > > On Behalf Of Michael Walker
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 3:06 PM
> > > > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > > > Teachers'Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] Computer Lab usage
> > > >
> > > >>>> Laurie Savage<sav at pvgc.vic.edu.au> 09/05/06 12:07pm >>>
> > > >>> And now we have a generation of people who cannot do the
> simplest
> > > > calculation in their head.
> > > >
> > > > Laurie
> > > >
> > > >>>> Mark Scott wrote:
> > > >> They said the same thing about calculators back in the early
> > > > seventies.
> > > >
> > > > Ah generalisations, you've got to love them... 8^)
> > > >
> > > > I would argue that with the use of calculators, you don't need
> to do
> > > > the simplest calculation in your head. However, it requires a
> > > > different skill set to check that your calculator is giving you
> an
> > > > accurate answer rather than no skill set at all, hence the
> higher
> > > > emphasis on estimation that occurs in teaching maths now than
> when I
> > > > was at school. Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis...
> > > >
> > > > I would also argue that those kids I know of who have trouble
> > > > performing the simplest calculation aren't all that flash on
> using the
> > > > calculator either. I would suggest that a greater cause is lack
> of
> > > > interest for whatever reason from boring teaching methods in
> previous
> > > > years showing the kids how irrelevant maths is to lack of
> support at
> > > > home for doing homework and school in general. Now there's a can
> of
> > > > worms or three...
> > > >
> > > > Although I don't think laptops are a cure for all ills, I
> suspect that
> > > > under some circumstances they can be a useful tool in the hands
> of the
> > > > right practitioner, and in others are a complete waste of time
> when
> > > the
> > > > circumstances of the school and students are taken into account.
> To
> > > > give some examples, I am sure that in some laptop schools, the
> laptops
> > > > are an expensive pseudo notebook / electronic textbook whose
> primary
> > > advantage
> > > > is larger capacity, neater handwriting (typing vs scribble) and
> better
> > > > searchability. Obviously Mark's school is not one of them based
> on his
> > > > response. That's not to say schools with poor use of laptops
> don't
> > > > exist, and anecdotal evidence would suggest that they do. On the
> other
> > > > hand, the same applies to schools who have changed their
> teaching to
> > > > make good use of new teaching methods available from every
> student
> > > > having the tool and having been taught a proficiency with it.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, I would suspect that there would be scenarios
> where
> > >
> > > > a
> > > > $2000 laptop would be a poor use of family or school resources
> for the
> > > > perceived benefits compared to alternatives. Would a struggling
> > > western
> > > > suburbs secondary school be able to justify making every student
> buy a
> > > > laptop, even on finance? Would alternative approaches such as
> good use
> > > > of Moodle with external access be more appropriate in terms of
> bang
> > > for
> > > > buck?
> > > >
> > > > I would suggest that neither black nor white are correct and
> that
> > > > although there is a place for laptops in schools, it would be
> silly to
> > > > try and suggest that it would be desirable for every school in
> the
> > > > state and every student in the state to have a laptop and be in
> a
> > > > laptop program. Or to suggest that every maths student in the
> state
> > > > can't do simple calculations in their head...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > Dr J Turner
> > > Head of Information Technology / VCE Coordinator Presbyterian
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> > > College BURWOOD Victoria 3125
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