[Year 12 IPM] IT in VELS

Tue Jun 20 16:53:13 EST 2006

Thanks Leanne,
I am glad this email topic has provoked so much from IT teachers.The general feeling I get from many of the emails is that IT teachers now accept that IT teachers are the best people to deliver the essential IT skills and knowledge. Let us not forget that VELS is NOT only about skills, but also about knowledge.

As unpopular as the statement may sound, I still maintain that the vast majority of teachers in other KLAs (note I still regard IT as a KLA) do not have the interest in teaching the basic skills. They do not have the interest in teaching about bits and bytes, etc. They are experts in their KLA, and their curriculum focus will, and should be, on development of good learning activities and programmes for their students. This will and should include use of ICT where appropriate, but at the same time for the use of the ICT to be effective, students will need to be well versed in the basic skills in the use hardware and software. The approach of some teachers in other KLAs who claim to be able to teach what IT demands by simply asking us to give them the CSF outcome statements (imagine the outcry from some KLAs if the reverse was to happen...!!) is very, very short sighted and shows a complete lack of vision of the 'big picture'. IT is a way of thinking and doing...one cannot clai
 m to be teaching IT effectively without a genuine desire and affinity for the study of IT. 

There are some teachers in other KLAs who do have the desire and affinity with IT...they have generally taught IT at some stage in their careers, or they have been keen followers of developments in the world of IT over many years and have trained themselves to effectively utilise hardware and software. I suggest such teachers are the minority.

Regards,
Frank Merlino

Leanne Wright <barbarloot at yahoo.com> on Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:02:25 -0700 (PDT) wrote:
> What an insult to IT as a subject and IT teaching generally. Apparently if I understand your arguement correctly IT should only exist to present work required by the other 'KLA's' and has no relevance or use outside this. Anything else is classified as an 'artificial activities', which presumably includes any attempt to give students IT skills which just might be marketable in the outside world (you know, the one outside schools and KLA's). 
>   A quick look in the employment section of Saturday's Age doesn't seem to indicate much demand for employees producing powerpoint presentations of Ancient Egypt or nicely word processed and formatted English essays and book reviews. I find it astonishing that at a time when IT skills are being increasingly used and frequently demanded in all areas of the workplace - a claim which cannot made by many if any other KLA's - that attempts to give students work related IT skills are described as 'artificial activities' when they might just end up giving students the edge over other applicants in an increasingly 'dog eat dog' employment market.
>   Leanne Wright
> 
> "Bell, Cameron P" <bell.cameron.p at edumail.vic.gov.au> :
>   No, the thrust of the argument is a trained IT teacher training the students 
> within the context of an appropriate KLA context. Not some stand alone unit 
> with a vague artificial context.
> Who is an IT teacher to say "No word art" anyway? I'm no graphic design 
> artist, and a lot of "good design practise" is very subjective anyway, but if 
> a graphics/art teacher wanted word art, I'm not going to stand in the way. 
> IT teachers should be about the mechanics of the process (if needed) not the 
> content, lack of, or over supply of.
> My role as an IT teacher would be to consult with the KLA teacher about what 
> they want, how they want to implement it , and guide both them and the 
> students on how to achieve their goals.
> It is only a matter of time before the majority of teachers start to become 
> comfortable and confident with the use of ICT, they will simply be unable to 
> avoid it. Those who a refusing at the moment are simply going to find 
> themselves swamped with the possibilities ICT has to offer to their subject 
> as our infrastructure increases and curriculums change.
> I am saying something along the lines of:
> "There is no subject called IT. There is a block of timetable time where 
> students may access the infrastructure under the guidance of a trained IT 
> teacher to implement a solution required for another KLA area. The IT teacher 
> uses his/her skills to provide an *efficient* working environment for an 
> otherwise unskilled KLA teacher"
> At the moment a lot of school labs are taken up with vague IT classes teaching 
> "skills" that may or may not be useful now or in the future, when there are 
> KLA problems needing solutions *right now* and they simply don't have access 
> to the labs. (This situation may or may not apply in all schools, but it does 
> in many)
> I think it is ironic(?) that the only place I saw the need for specific IT 
> classes was at a 1-1 laptop school. The students always had access to the 
> technology and consequently the students were left to their own devices - or 
> worse, given advice by teachers with no idea. They needed time to be allowed 
> to use their laptops under the trained guidance of an IT-trained teacher but 
> that conflicted with the "IT across the curriculum". The major problem as I 
> saw it, was that the students were expected to use the laptops in all KLA's, 
> however, the Curriculum was never shortened to allow some time for the 
> students to learn how to best use the laptops in the KLA. I was losing 
> Science time, showing the students basic skills in ICT. They sorely needed 
> the timetable time mentioned above to learn how best to use their laptops.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of frankm at sjcs.melb.catholic.edu.au
> Sent: Fri 6/2/2006 6:05 PM
> To: ipm at edulists.com.au
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] IT in VELS
> 
> 
> Yep...that's what we need....each KLA teaching the students to use IT in their own way. Love seeing those projects with masses of word art, fancy fonts, money formatted to several decimal points...and by the way, let's not forget the hand written name on the projects/reports....headers and footers may not have been introduced.....
> 
> One would think there is a role for the IT people to introduce the basic skills in a STAND-ALONE unit. At least, there would be some standard ways of diong things introduced. The KLAs could then build on the skills already introduced.
> 
> The reality is that there are MANY teachers who will not or cannot be bothered or have no interest in teaching any ICT in their units, whether VELS says so or not.
> 
> Regards,
> Frank 
> 
> 
> "Bell, Cameron P" on Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:48:37 +1000 wrote:
> > We have a LSF initiative - "Yarra valley e-Learning Community" and a key
> > part of that is that we have:
> > Learning Technology Coaches - each school has a full time teacher whose
> > roll is to help teachers integrate ICT into their classes,
> > Development Managers (4) who help develop units of work.
> > These are crucial rolls and help us immensely in the incorporation of
> > ICT - especially with the 1-2 notebook computers in Yr 7.
> > So the "consultant" role exists in some schools, it is such a shame that
> > this is only possible because of the special funding available due to
> > the LSF.
> > Cameron
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Joel Walton
> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:35 PM
> > To: IPM; IS; IT 7-10
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] IT in VELS
> > 
> > Cameron,
> > 
> > Yep I couldn't agree more.
> > 
> > Stand-alone subjects and isolated/unrelated tasks in
> > IT classes are rubbish!
> > 
> > A more inclusive/realistic utilisation of classes is
> > needed. I am sure most computer teachers are inclusive
> > of other areas in their tasks, eg investigating
> > research topic etc.
> > 
> > And I would love to be a computing consultant to other
> > subjects and aid the teachers in designing units of
> > work, but no school I can think of in the government
> > sector would realistically sanction that idea. :(
> > 
> > Because ICT is a lower priority most of the non-ICT
> > literate or low-ICT literate because they don't know
> > how to incorporated it or its "to much of a hassle"
> > they will just get students to make a power point or
> > publisher assignment.
> > 
> > File management is important, but its not something
> > that I spend a lot of time on, I show them how to set
> > themselves up in the first 10 minutes of the semester
> > and then encourage them to keep putting their work
> > into it, if it is not there it doesn't get marked...
> > now that's incentive to maintain it without all of the
> > constant hassle. :)
> > 
> > I must say before I sign-off... I don't want to sound
> > like a broken record and a worry-wart, I will accept
> > anyway that is better for the kids, if it reduces the
> > number or eliminates stand-alone ICT classes that's
> > cool... but so long as the skills are taught I will be
> > happy.
> > 
> > I don't want the entire technology to be 'integrated'
> > into a curriculum that eventually becomes power point
> > presentations and attaching wheels to a model and then
> > going....'oooooo' it rolls :)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Joel Walton
> > Technology KLA
> > Shepparton.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> > Bell, Cameron P
> > Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 12:49 PM
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and
> > Management Teachers'MailingList
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] IT in VELS
> > 
> > Interesting times!
> > As a IT/Science/Maths teacher I would much prefer to
> > see our school labs
> > freed up from teaching "Office" to allowing me easier
> > access to allow my
> > Science and maths students time to develop solutions
> > relevant to those
> > subjects rather than developing some solution to an
> > artificial problem
> > created just so they can learn a particular software
> > package.
> > There are sufficient "real" solutions waiting to be
> > developed for core
> > subjects that there should be no need to create
> > artificial ones.
> > How often do you see students creating websites (even
> > for a "client")
> > just so they can learn <>?
> > Would be much better that they were using the labs to
> > create e-folios
> > for other subjects or using Excel for a solution to a
> > Science Prac.
> > So where does this leave me as an IT teacher?
> > 1) Trying to encourage those students who want to
> > learn programming or
> > advanced techniques or ICT theory so that I can
> > justify IT as a stand
> > alone subject.
> > 2) A "consultant" to other teachers showing them how
> > they can
> > incorporate ICT into their subjects and ensuring that
> > they have enough
> > access to the labs to ensure they know they don't try
> > to learn stuff for
> > a one-off activity.
> > The ideal role for an IT teacher would be like a
> > librarian - you bring
> > the students into your domain to find a solution for a
> > "real-world"
> > problem from a Core subject area - in consultation
> > with that teacher.
> > In my ideal school, the time taken from a stand-alone
> > IT subject would
> > be given to other subjects on the condition that any
> > additional time
> > they get would be to incorporate ICT into their area
> > ala VELS.
> > I now have students telling me that they have done
> > Powerpoint etc since
> > Prep. I have more and more teachers asking for more
> > and more access to
> > the labs. I am finding that there are more and more
> > tools available for
> > efficient file management (virtual folders, Learning
> > Management Systems)
> > and that no matter how much *we* think file management
> > is important -
> > most students couldn't give a rats as the software
> > generally takes care
> > of it for them and you could hardly call file
> > management "engaging". 
> > We need to loose the structure of IT classes and let
> > students "play" and
> > "explore the possibilities" within the context of a
> > real problem.
> > 
> > That's probably more than 2c worth.......back to
> > reports.
> > 
> > Cameron
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> > On Behalf Of Joel Walton
> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:41 AM
> > To: IPM; IS; IT 7-10
> > Subject: [Year 12 IPM] IT in VELS
> > 
> > Hello Frank, hello all.
> > 
> > Yes your fears/concerns are shared with me.
> > 
> > We to still exist in our school as a department albeit
> > a small one.
> > 
> > We have worked hard since I joined the school a couple
> > of years back improving the outcomes and what subjects
> > that we offer to our students.
> > I have come in with the attitude that we are a
> > sub-business within the school and we have to sell our
> > classes to the students so that they will 'vote with
> > their feet' and continue to select the Technology
> > subjects each year. However, I am concerned that
> > sooner or later the standing in the eyes of the
> > students or in a more importantly the view from
> > administration/education department will further
> > decline and we will be marginalised out.
> > 
> > Currently we are starting next year a new program that
> > will be a year 8 integrated subject which will have
> > Math, English, Science, SOSE but no direct technology,
> > art or health. This has taken 1 period off these 4
> > areas but has also taken the periods of 1 elective
> > block which further reduces the opportunities of
> > technology subjects. Also the year level guidelines
> > state that the electives the students must select 1
> > from arts, SOSE, etc etc but NOT technology!!
> > 
> > Our concern is 
> > * Where is the technology going to be included in
> > these 'generalistic' classes?
> > * The people creating the syllabus do they have a
> > decent technological grasp so it can be included in
> > the course beyond Word, Powerpoint & Publisher?
> > * Will the teachers (Math, English, Science, SOSE)
> > teaching the course be able to teach the technology,
> > even if it is included in the course?
> > 
> > This could lead to students going through high school
> > with no direct Technology classes except what they do
> > in year 7!!
> > Are we 'the clever country' with no ICT skills?? I
> > often wonder
> > 
> > We/I just can not for the life of me work out why the
> > department is marginalising a whole department
> > ICT/Materials away where it is basically one of the
> > few departments that relates to every job in the
> > future. (apprentice through to office worker to stay
> > at home parent)
> > 
> > If anyone can work this out for me I would be very
> > appreciative.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Joel Walton
> > Technology KLA 
> > Shepparton.
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________________
> > From: is-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:is-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Frank
> > Merlino
> > Sent: Monday, 29 May 2006 8:48 PM
> > To: is at edulists.com.au
> > Subject: [Year 12 Its] IT in VELS
> > 
> > Dear IS Colleagues,
> > I am aware that ICT is to be integrated into all KLAs
> > as part of VELS. I know IT is no longer strictly a
> > KLA. The situation still remains, who is going to
> > teach the basic skills of ICT? The usual answers are
> > that these will be covered in various KLA units,
> > teachers will implement programmes designed to teach
> > the basic ICT skills etc..etc. May I suggest that this
> > is a recipe for disaster? Ideally,the notion that ICT
> > skills are introduced as require into units of study
> > is great...ideally!! Experience shows that all sorts
> > of excuses emerge from many teachers when it comes to
> > teaching basic IT skills....couldn't book a computer
> > room...we ran out of time...... I am not suggesting
> > that teachers are not well intentioned, but for many
> > the teaching of basic ICT skills is something out of
> > their comfort zone.
> > 
> > We (as a technology faculty) still exist at the school
> > I work in. I have managed to maintain several IT units
> > in our vertical years 8-10 curriculum. We have set up
> > a "foundation" unit that will be compulory for all
> > students (it is a level 5 CSF unit). We will teach
> > what we consider as basic knowledge and skills, eg.
> > basics of hardware, word-processing, spreadsheets,
> > etc, digital property rights etc. Our view is that at
> > least teachers in "other" KLAs will not have to teach
> > the basic skills but rather apply the basic skills and
> > if necessary introduce extension ICT skills as
> > required. The foundation unit will be taught by IT
> > staff in a consistent manner, using IT formats and
> > conventions. It was amazing to see the objections some
> > KLAs had to this idea...all of a sudden their staff
> > were going to become teachers of basic ICT skills, as
> > long as the IT people told them what these skills
> > were....a bit of PD here and there and hey, what's the
> > problem?!!!"
> > 
> > For the present, we have managed to survive in this
> > VELS environment, but for how long? We need to develop
> > IT units that interest students. Our foundation unit
> > has to be "spot on" in terms of the basic skills it
> > teaches.
> > 
> > I am interested in what is happening in this area in
> > your schools...or, as it is put in Parliament, "is the
> > minister aware of an alternative policies?"
> > 
> > ...Be passionate about IT.......
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Frank Merlino
> > Technology (IT and Systems) Co-ordinator
> > Web Site Manager
> > St. Joseph's College
> > 135 Aphrasia St, Newtown
> > Geelong, Victoria, Australia, 3219
> > Phone: 03 52 268100 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> ---
> Frank Merlino
> St. Joseph's College
> 135 Aphrasia St
> Newtown, Geelong, Vic
> Australia, 3220
> (03 52 268100)
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> 
> 
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---
Frank Merlino
St. Joseph's College
135 Aphrasia St
Newtown, Geelong, Vic
Australia, 3220
(03 52 268100)